Engine feel Gen1 vs Gen2 comparison

[Varelco]

I tell you what OP, when I get my GR86 I will reply to this thread with a genuine, unbiased and helpful answer.

Until then you are just gonna have to ride out all the nonsense and people bashing each other.

[alex87f]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Wrong. You CAN improve the low end without compromising the top end. The engine still pulls from 5-7.5k as willingly as the FA20, just with more power.

Look at the hp curve up top, same slope.

That can't be a stock FA20, it has virtually no torque dip.

Being a gen. 1 owner, the gen. 2 seems to have achieved that annoying trick of actually being better in most (if not all) measurable respects.

That being said, while the FA20 has a bit of an agricultural feel to it, it certainly has character. That might not be obvious to northern Americans used to V6 that and V8 this, but compared to every other European 3- or 4-pot turbo, that character is certainly welcome, even if it doesn't come with extra speed.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Varelco

I tell you what OP, when I get my GR86 I will reply to this thread with a genuine, unbiased and helpful answer.

Until then you are just gonna have to ride out all the nonsense and people bashing each other.

Yes, yours will be the first genuine unbiased and helpful answer. None of us current Gen 2 owners who had a Gen 1 could possibly comprehend how to compare them.

[PBR]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Yes, yours will be the first genuine unbiased and helpful answer. None of us current Gen 2 owners who had a Gen 1 could possibly comprehend how to compare them.

It's a troll by Subaru. It's exactly the same engine. Despite less of that hollow burbling sound and much smoother from 4k to the 7300 rpm fuel cut off, its the same engine. That big swell of torque you now feel, that wasn't there before? Not true. Subaru cared about the FA20 owners so much they kept it all the same out of respect. It's definitely not more powerful with a much better power delivery and torque you can use either as a lazy American or to hold a slide better. Here is the best way I can put it and I promise I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

If you told me an FA20 made 180 hp and 140 torque? I would believe you. If you told me an FA24 makes 250 hp and 200 torque? I would believe you. The difference in feel is huge. Sincerely.

[Yoshoobaroo]

I’ll tell you one thing that’s exactly the same as before, the Rev limiter comes down like and anvil, it’s brutal. I kinda forgot after years of driving around with a tuned FA20.

Other than that it feels like a different engine. It still has the quirks and weird rattles and sounds of a boxer motor, but it’s more smooth in its power delivery. Besides the power difference it feels like a much better calibration than especially the early FA20s. When flooring it from 2.5-7k it feels much more linear and less choppy. It’s not BMW-inline6 level smooth, but it’s much better than the old car. My only complaint is that first gear feels a bit too short now that there’s more power, glad they went back to the OG final drive, with the ZC6 facelift ratio it would have felt even more ‘too short’.

[PBR]

Well put. I have a '13 with a cat back exhaust. I love that car even though it will be sold. And you are correct about its characteristics. I preferred my FRS to my Elise both on road and track. No bs. They're just more playful. Pretty raw, still. Had an S2K. Still prefer the FRS. Better steering feel. Stiffer chassis, less sensitive to inputs. And again and most importantly, more playful. Easier and likes to slide. When I read the new car would have 228 hp and 184 ft/lbs of torque, that was cool but was more excited about the torsional rigidity increases. That would give better feel than what i thought would be an FA20's brand of 228 hp and 184. So it definitely wasn't going to feel like 228/184. That's exactly what I thought, right or wrong. And I was wrong. It's the real kind of 228/184 and it's everywhere. Even at the top while having that nice midrange. Not hating on the FRS. I have one ffs but there's a very clear advantage in the new car which simply makes it more fun and that new FA24 is a big part of it. And that's what these cars are all about. Imo, anyways. I also apologize for trolling the first gen earlier. I feel bad. I still love them lol.

[Ernest72]

Two things to add,

I believe the 2nd Gen is better than my 16 BRZ, but not enough for the price differential from my paid off car, when they are essentially the same experience. Used in the future at a huge discount might be worth it.

And the fact that anyone would say a Subaru engine is refined is pretty laughable. They are raw and noisy in general, no refinement to be found.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Two things to add,

I believe the 2nd Gen is better than my 16 BRZ, but not enough for the price differential from my paid off car, when they are essentially the same experience. Used in the future at a huge discount might be worth it.

And the fact that anyone would say a Subaru engine is refined is pretty laughable. They are raw and noisy in general, no refinement to be found.

Originally Posted by Ernest72

-You will never know until you drive one yourself. I will eventually. -

Says the person who hasn’t driven one.

Subaru has made strides in making their engines more refined across their lineup in the past decade. They commonly use hydraulic engine mounts now, something that used to be reserved for luxury cars only, they have done a good job at providing much better tunes for their engines as they did before. This is very apparent across the lifespan of the FA20 as well. The 2013 twins almost NEED an aftermarket tune to have an acceptable power delivery. It’s very chattery and peaky across the rev range. The 17–20 calibrations are much much better. The new WRX is a similar story. There’s no big power gains there, but the engine is a whole lot better in the way that it delivers that power.

Despite all this they are still boxer engines, so they will be loud and make weird noises that inline and V engines just do not. You can get the power delivery perfect and most refinement characteristics as well, but at idle they WILL sound like a bucket of bolts rattling around. A 100K 911 sounds exactly the same at idle.

[Interceptor777]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I’ll tell you one thing that’s exactly the same as before, the Rev limiter comes down like and anvil, it’s brutal. I kinda forgot after years of driving around with a tuned FA20.

Other than that it feels like a different engine. It still has the quirks and weird rattles and sounds of a boxer motor, but it’s more smooth in its power delivery. Besides the power difference it feels like a much better calibration than especially the early FA20s. When flooring it from 2.5-7k it feels much more linear and less choppy. It’s not BMW-inline6 level smooth, but it’s much better than the old car. My only complaint is that first gear feels a bit too short now that there’s more power, glad they went back to the OG final drive, with the ZC6 facelift ratio it would have felt even more ‘too short’.

Hahahah 100%. Coming from my Miata, 1 out of every 5 pulls or so I hit the limiter because I didn't expect it to come so fast. The car is also pulling so much at the top end that when it stops pulling you really do go flying forward in your seat a bit.

The Miata gave me time to think about shifting while doing a 2nd gear pull. 2nd gear in the new BRZ is like 1st gear now.

[PBR]

[QUOTE=Ernest72;3497417]Two things to add,

I don't think anyone is saying it is refined. More refined. Which was the original question.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Says the person who hasn’t driven one.

Subaru has made strides in making their engines more refined across their lineup in the past decade. They commonly use hydraulic engine mounts now, something that used to be reserved for luxury cars only, they have done a good job at providing much better tunes for their engines as they did before. This is very apparent across the lifespan of the FA20 as well. The 2013 twins almost NEED an aftermarket tune to have an acceptable power delivery. It’s very chattery and peaky across the rev range. The 17–20 calibrations are much much better. The new WRX is a similar story. There’s no big power gains there, but the engine is a whole lot better in the way that it delivers that power.

Despite all this they are still boxer engines, so they will be loud and make weird noises that inline and V engines just do not. You can get the power delivery perfect and most refinement characteristics as well, but at idle they WILL sound like a bucket of bolts rattling around. A 100K 911 sounds exactly the same at idle.

I never said the lack of refinement was a bad thing. I realize everyone took my comment as a negative. But I actually like the rawness, I love my 04 WRX 18 year old EJ205 with 150k. She still hammers at stage 2 for the last 13 years and when I start her in single digits in the cold, she could shake loose a filling because of the Group N motor mounts and poly GS pitch mount.

And I don’t need to drive a car to know I don’t want to spend over 10k when I have a completely paid off modified car that is literally a blast to drive every time. And is my DD for a 119 mile round trip commute 3-4 days a week, getting about 33 mpg. It truly is a great thing to have two Subarus that are modified, paid-off and remarkably both have been very reliable.

And trust me I have thought about the Gen2 a lot because I currently have a bunch of cash sitting and burning in the bank, waiting for my next project. Just can’t decide if the 981 cayman S is worth it, certainly not at the current prices, so I will wait for this market to cool and continue to save money.

[Lantanafrs2]

My car sounds and feels like a saw mill even tuned with header and e85. Sorry to say it. I can't imagine driving a stock first gen. I've been told that some guys stick pine cones up their ass for fun though.

[Midnightsky]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I never said the lack of refinement was a bad thing. I realize everyone took my comment as a negative. But I actually like the rawness, I love my 04 WRX 18 year old EJ205 with 150k. She still hammers at stage 2 for the last 13 years and when I start her in single digits in the cold, she could shake loose a filling because of the Group N motor mounts and poly GS pitch mount.

And I don’t need to drive a car to know I don’t want to spend over 10k when I have a completely paid off modified car that is literally a blast to drive every time. And is my DD for a 119 mile round trip commute 3-4 days a week, getting about 33 mpg. It truly is a great thing to have two Subarus that are modified, paid-off and remarkably both have been very reliable.

And trust me I have thought about the Gen2 a lot because I currently have a bunch of cash sitting and burning in the bank, waiting for my next project. Just can’t decide if the 981 cayman S is worth it, certainly not at the current prices, so I will wait for this market to cool and continue to save money.

Evoras are getting surprisingly affordable.

[PBR]

Totally understand this. You're not the only one that is or was cross shopping outside of price. I've had a few pure sports cars. Not car guy cars, driver's car. And there is a difference. The newer Caymans and Boxsters are too compromised for me. Sure, finer components and better leather options. But it also takes into consideration those that love features and hype. I don't want an Ostrich leather option. That's not focused. The steering used to be awesome on 987s. Not anymore. Mcpherson struts all around isn't so awesome either. Or 3000 lbs plus. That kind of stuff is not focused. And even though less refined or whatever, these new twins are simply harder core sports cars imo. Less cool? Sure. Less of a sports car? Not so sure about that. My reasoning anyways. And all my buds said to get an M2. It weighs more than an E39 M5. Nope.