namess vs AP crossover pipe?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Bah I'll win. :P

ITR vs. Supra, ionno man. I vote Guff.

[Jason@Nameless]

Krea.tion,

You have an excellent point in regard to head butting on the forum and I do truly apologize for that behavior. How do you suggest we make a clear comparison of our quality product vs the competition? Do we just let people speak for us using their experience? Do we just speak about the details of our product line without direct comparison?

My experience is that our customer base and happy customers have less to lose than we do and often will take a thread like this over the top far worse than we would. It's a tough call for us. In this case I've said what I have to say about the quality of our parts. I can post some pics of the inside of our designs and the weld penetration tomorrow and discuss back purging vs use of flux, etc. at that point.

So what do we do? I'd like to hear how you would approach this if you were in our shoes. I'll take your suggestion to heart. In earnest.

J

[xjohnx]

I feel like vendors should be able to at least make comparisons of features that differentiate their product from the competition without too much drama.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by 2pt5RS

Everyone wins when the worthless company that is vivid goes away.

Yeah, because less in choice in product offerings is always a good thing....

[Jason@Nameless]

Originally Posted by krea.tion

Are you talking about Japanese companies like HKS and Greddy? I think in cases like that you are mostly seeing a language barrier more than anything. There are proven gains with them too its just they cater more to the Japanese market and publish gains in Japanese magazines, forums and TV programs that we don't really get much exposure to here.

If this is true, why is HKS still running the mushroom of death filters? I think you're also missing the inherent style element of those companies that also does not translate to the US market. HKS legamax muffler is baffled just like the factory system and retails for over a grand for an axleback. It looks and sounds nice but it isn't a top notch performance system in my opinion. Look at the JDM systems that use secondary circuits of equal diameter to the primary. That is a style and look consideration and does not make reasonable sense from an empirical engineering perspective. The drone factor on systems like these are also staggering.

It's not to say that there aren't brilliant product developments in those markets also, but that isn't the main factor behind these companies decision making behind their product development. And don't get me wrong, I have an immense respect for the R&D of many JDM companies like SARD (they specifically have some of the highest end silicone couplers I have ever seen in person, manufactured by Continental in Korea). But I don't necessarily feel the same way for the big names like G'Reddy and HKS.

ALPINA in the BMW market used to be one of the hardest core motorsport dev companies on earth, but now they are almost in pure badge engineering coast mode. I have photos of their B7 7er Twin Turbo front mount that would make you cringe. It's spool gun snot MIG welded. Things change. Business decisions change and driving factors in companies change. It's sad but true.

The Agency Power parts shown in the OP could be made by Cosworth and I probably would have said the same things if the parts looked like they do. If AP has changed their manufacturing or methodology, by all means they need to speak up and show us how.

J

[Jason@Nameless]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Yeah, because less in choice in product offerings is always a good thing....

The reality is that the high end usually is the company that goes away.

SPL stopped making their S13 control arms because of the overseas playground equipment knock offs. Hotshot flat out went under because of knock offs copying their unique swap headers. And do those knock off companies develop unique products? Show me ONE innovative and unique product from any of the companies I mentioned earlier. I've yet to see any.

I'm sorry for having passion about this. I feel strongly about it. And honestly I think all enthusiasts should. Might be a little heavy, but the reality is that if we want to continue developing superior products we are forced to point out differentiating factors. And we are the first company I have seen to refuse to sell components like the midpipe that make negligible power gains at increased weight. And what does that buy us? Nothing.

I'm not convinced that we shouldn't fight for our position here. Help me to see an alternative.

J

[Tomzilla]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

The reality is that the high end usually is the company that goes away.

SPL stopped making their S13 control arms because of the overseas playground equipment knock offs. Hotshot flat out went under because of knock offs copying their unique swap headers. And do those knock off companies develop unique products? Show me ONE innovative and unique product from any of the companies I mentioned earlier. I've yet to see any.

I'm sorry for having passion about this. I feel strongly about it. And honestly I think all enthusiasts should. Might be a little heavy, but the reality is that if we want to continue developing superior products we are forced to point out differentiating factors. And we are the first company I have seen to refuse to sell components like the midpipe that make negligible power gains at increased weight. And what does that buy us? Nothing.

I'm not convinced that we shouldn't fight for our position here. Help me to see an alternative.

J

This guy.

I dig the passion and you will be receiving my money within this year.

[mechaghost]

Jason I applaud you for defending quality and having passion to improve the platform. For me passion is a big factor in deciding most everything pin life :-D

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

The reality is that the high end usually is the company that goes away.

SPL stopped making their S13 control arms because of the overseas playground equipment knock offs. Hotshot flat out went under because of knock offs copying their unique swap headers. And do those knock off companies develop unique products? Show me ONE innovative and unique product from any of the companies I mentioned earlier. I've yet to see any.

I'm sorry for having passion about this. I feel strongly about it. And honestly I think all enthusiasts should. Might be a little heavy, but the reality is that if we want to continue developing superior products we are forced to point out differentiating factors. And we are the first company I have seen to refuse to sell components like the midpipe that make negligible power gains at increased weight. And what does that buy us? Nothing.

I'm not convinced that we shouldn't fight for our position here. Help me to see an alternative.

J

I agree with your position regarding knock-offs entirely. Knockoffs harm the aftermarket industry, and they are always the products that I avoid.

With that said, I have not seen definitive evidence regarding who came up with which idea/design and when, and I will reserve further judgment until those facts come to light.

I was merely pointing out that more choices is always better, otherwise all you have are monopolies or oligopolies, which inevitably harm the consumer.

[FRSpdDmn]

Jason, I am good friends with an excellent fabricator, but I am not a fabricator. I can understand your reasoning for believing so strongly in your product. I will be looking closely at your products when I get ready to buy power adders. I appreciate your methodology and craftsmanship.

I think what would be most appropriate would be to leave the names of other vendors out of your posts for your product. Maybe refer to them as "others" or "some vendors". Tout all of the benefits of YOUR product and give your consumers the tools to educate themselves. Leave it to us to go ask XYZ vendor if their product has the same features that you told us all about in yours.

Cheers,

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

If this is true, why is HKS still running the mushroom of death filters? I think you're also missing the inherent style element of those companies that also does not translate to the US market. HKS legamax muffler is baffled just like the factory system and retails for over a grand for an axleback. It looks and sounds nice but it isn't a top notch performance system in my opinion. Look at the JDM systems that use secondary circuits of equal diameter to the primary. That is a style and look consideration and does not make reasonable sense from an empirical engineering perspective. The drone factor on systems like these are also staggering.

It's not to say that there aren't brilliant product developments in those markets also, but that isn't the main factor behind these companies decision making behind their product development. And don't get me wrong, I have an immense respect for the R&D of many JDM companies like SARD (they specifically have some of the highest end silicone couplers I have ever seen in person, manufactured by Continental in Korea). But I don't necessarily feel the same way for the big names like G'Reddy and HKS.


J

QFT, wasn't it relatively recently where they found the HKS filters to be horrible at actually filtering anything? I used to be all about brand name and JDM this or that, but now it is the company that proves themselves that I will be giving my hard earned money to. I'm no longer interested in whose name is on what product if they aren't willing to develop a product that doesn't make any more power than stock.

Greddy still makes exhaust's out of mild steel that cost more than similar stainless exhaust from non-JDM companies. Don't get me wrong, each company shines in their own respect very greatly, but if I'm buying something for my car it better perform better than stock equipment. It's sad that many companies just make profit because of their name when it should be their product speaking for them. ARC is a good example of a company thats products are on the extremely high end of the pricing spectrum, but many of their parts perform subpar to OEM. You also have companies like Tomei willing to make QUALITY components extremely affordable(Titanium exhausts for under 1k) and have great customer support as well!

All I'm saying is I'm done with the brandwhoring and will support a vendor that backs their product, over some name that has been around for a while sitting stagnant.

[ayau]

i think people have to realize that big companies such as HKS have a lot more overhead than a small company like Nameless. It's almost impossible not to see the name HKS in some tuner magazine. on the other hand, i've personally never heard of nameless until i came to this forum.

i'm sure HKS and other big companies can make some quality parts, but you have to realize how much they're paying just for advertisements alone. you're only given X amount of money to make an exhaust, and nameless can put more money into their products because they do not have as much overhead.

jason, please continue to educate the community. we can definitely tell that you're very passionate about what you do. keep it up!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

QFT, wasn't it relatively recently where they found the HKS filters to be horrible at actually filtering anything?

if by recently you mean over 10 years ago

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

if by recently you mean over 10 years ago

LOL it seems like just yesterday, I seriously don't know how they're still using them.