Chance of a Turbo Version in Next 2 Years?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That would be the skewed perspective from guys on a car forum but the reality is probably way different. To many of the NEW car buyers it is simply a nice little inexpensive coup that makes a great daily driver, second car. To term them as "enthusiasts" would be quite a stretch. This is at least the case in much of North America where they are abundant. Europe (where they are rare) and places like California (where there are more "enthusiasts") may be exceptions to the rule.

Yes you are right. I was referring mainly to the enthusiasts that were asked when this car was on the initial design phase. If they were targeting it mainly for the ordinary buyer, then I believe it would have as the norm from the beginning a smaller turbo engine. A 1.6 turbo engine was introduced with the Levorg '14 model and more recently they designed a 1.8 turbo engine, so power plant choices were available.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

You’re missing my point I’m afraid. I’m not talking about speed, numbers or any actual performance metric. I’m talking about how the torque delivery changes across the rev range. A constant (or even increasing) level of torque when you approach redline is much more exciting than a torque curve that drops fast while approaching redline, even if the resulting average acceleration is slower. If I gave a damn about how fast it is I wouldn’t be buying this car. Electric motors cannot avoid a constantly dropping torque delivery, gearbox or not. That’s just how an electric motor works. And that’s fine.

The same thing holds true with RC cars. The electric ones are really fast these days, faster than most nitro ICE RC cars. But the nitro engine’d cars have a more intoxicating power delivery. As an experience the nitros are more fun. But they also require way more work.

Simple issue to fix. Cut the torque massively at lower speeds. Program the EV or RC car to deliver rising and then falling amounts of torque and an engine soundtrack, simulating going through gears. Peak torque can be lowered everywhere but at at predetermined points to give the illusion you seek.

I get the attraction of ICE, but it's more nostalgia than anything.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

Simple issue to fix. Cut the torque massively at lower speeds. Program the EV or RC car to deliver rising and then falling amounts of torque and an engine soundtrack, simulating going through gears. Peak torque can be lowered everywhere but at at predetermined points to give the illusion you seek.

I get the attraction of ICE, but it's more nostalgia than anything.

Yea that’s true, but handicapping the electric motor didn’t make sense to me. I’d rather just embrace the electric motor for its strengths and flaws alike, I don’t need it to mimic a ICE. I mainly wanted to highlight that no matter the performance, some people will prefer what seems like an inferior setup.

[Lelandjt]

Okay, I decided that at every moment I care about the chassis and body style. I only care about the power when I'm more than 2/3 into the throttle. I just talked to a Toyota dealer in Denver and I'm gonna order a Neptune blue 86 (for the different spring rates than the BRZ) so that it arrives May 20th when I get back to Colorado for the summer. If by the end of the summer it's not enough power for me I'll sell it for probably a minimal loss and buy something else the next summer (or consider a turbo kit). It's not sounding like the Z will be available by early summer anyway and all the other cars on my list I'd do better to wait another year and buy on the used market once it's settled down. Parts availability also makes 2023 a better summer than 2022 for doing an e-conversion on a Gen 1 twin. I'll report back in June on how the power does exiting 11,000ft switchbacks in 2nd gear.

As for the highway cruising that was the original purpose of this thread: The reality is I will always be in my van full of MTBs and dirtbikes when I'm doing long highway trips.

[weederr33]

I'm genuinely surprised you decided on getting one. I still think you'd be pretty happy if you slapped a quality turbo kit on and did the right supporting mods and a good tune.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

Okay, I decided that at every moment I care about the chassis and body style. I only care about the power when I'm more than 2/3 into the throttle. I just talked to a Toyota dealer in Denver and I'm gonna order a Neptune blue 86 (for the different spring rates than the BRZ) so that it arrives May 20th when I get back to Colorado for the summer. If by the end of the summer it's not enough power for me I'll sell it for probably a minimal loss and buy something else the next summer (or consider a turbo kit). It's not sounding like the Z will be available by early summer anyway and all the other cars on my list I'd do better to wait another year and buy on the used market once it's settled down. Parts availability also makes 2023 a better summer than 2022 for doing an e-conversion on a Gen 1 twin. I'll report back in June on how the power does exiting 11,000ft switchbacks in 2nd gear.

As for the highway cruising that was the original purpose of this thread: The reality is I will always be in my van full of MTBs and dirtbikes when I'm doing long highway trips.

A brand new car that is available (there are already 20+ new ones in the country on Autotrader/Cargurus/etc, and I know that doesn't mean they are necessarily on the lot yet, but it means the dealer knows it's part of their allotment to be there soon) isn't going to appreciate or hold value the way the used car market is doing at the moment.

A quick Google says the cost to register a new car in Colorado is ~8% of the sales price, so that's nearly $3k lost even if you got your purchase price back, which you won't.

Personally, I'd just keep waiting. But it's your money.

[Baldeagle]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

Okay, I decided that at every moment I care about the chassis and body style. I only care about the power when I'm more than 2/3 into the throttle. I just talked to a Toyota dealer in Denver and I'm gonna order a Neptune blue 86 (for the different spring rates than the BRZ) so that it arrives May 20th when I get back to Colorado for the summer. If by the end of the summer it's not enough power for me I'll sell it for probably a minimal loss and buy something else the next summer (or consider a turbo kit). It's not sounding like the Z will be available by early summer anyway and all the other cars on my list I'd do better to wait another year and buy on the used market once it's settled down. Parts availability also makes 2023 a better summer than 2022 for doing an e-conversion on a Gen 1 twin. I'll report back in June on how the power does exiting 11,000ft switchbacks in 2nd gear.

As for the highway cruising that was the original purpose of this thread: The reality is I will always be in my van full of MTBs and dirtbikes when I'm doing long highway trips.

You are consistent in that you value light weight handling over “big” power. Know thyself. At 7,000 ft, 228hp will become about 180 hp. In a 2,850 pound car, it may not be underpowered and still keep a smile on your face.

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Not the ultimate answer either for a sports car:

When the motor torque is no longer limited to save the drivetrain (after 40mph for this dyno), the torque curve drops catastrophically. EVs are stupid fast starting at 0 RPM, but the torque output of an electric motor pretty much drops linearly with RPM, so an EV will never ‘pull to redline’ like a great ICE does.

Changing subjects, I had not seen this information before. At 60 mph, it seems the dotted-orange power line reads about 315 Kw and the solid-orange torque line reads about 420 Nm.

• 315 Kw = 422 hp and
• 420 Nm = 310 lbs-ft of torque.

If we rearrange the formula HP = (T X RPM)/ 5252 to:

• RPM = (HP X 5252)/ T
• RPM = (422 X 5252)/ 310
• RPM ≈ 7,150 (at 60 mph)

Does this make sense? I question it because my understanding is if you use units of HP and lbs-ft, the HP curve and Torque curve must cross at 5,252 rpm. This graph does not seem to do that. The cross-over point occurs at 82 mph or about 9,771 rpm. Did I do something wrong?

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Midnightsky

Not if you get the GT4, but I'd sooner have an Evora

I picked up my friend's GT4 with him.

you can drive the city & high way in just 2nd gear if you really want.

& skip Evora, get Emira.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

I picked up my friend's GT4 with him.

you can drive the city & high way in just 2nd gear if you really want.

& skip Evora, get Emira.

Looks like you can reach ~70–75 mph in 2nd in an Emira as well (watch at 23:15 in the video):

[Lelandjt]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

A brand new car that is available (there are already 20+ new ones in the country on Autotrader/Cargurus/etc, and I know that doesn't mean they are necessarily on the lot yet, but it means the dealer knows it's part of their allotment to be there soon) isn't going to appreciate or hold value the way the used car market is doing at the moment.

A quick Google says the cost to register a new car in Colorado is ~8% of the sales price, so that's nearly $3k lost even if you got your purchase price back, which you won't.

Personally, I'd just keep waiting. But it's your money.

If I was thinking with my wallet I'd just keep the Mazda 3. Replacing it with anything in the next 5 years is a stupid move driven by a desire to have something fun again. I'm also nearing the end of 2 months straight of working every day in Europe and Tahiti. I've got a ridiculous amount of cash in my bank account and want to treat myself. The twins are by far the second cheapest of my options besides sticking with the Mazda.

[Blighty]

Oh yeah, there will be a twin turbo hot v6.

Definitely wait for that.

[Baldeagle]

Originally Posted by Baldeagle

Changing subjects, I had not seen this information before. At 60 mph, it seems the dotted-orange power line reads about 315 Kw and the solid-orange torque line reads about 420 Nm.

• 315 Kw = 422 hp and
• 420 Nm = 310 lbs-ft of torque.

If we rearrange the formula HP = (T X RPM)/ 5252 to:

• RPM = (HP X 5252)/ T
• RPM = (422 X 5252)/ 310
• RPM ≈ 7,150 (at 60 mph)

Does this make sense? I question it because my understanding is if you use units of HP and lbs-ft, the HP curve and Torque curve must cross at 5,252 rpm. This graph does not seem to do that. The cross-over point occurs at 82 mph or about 9,771 rpm. Did I do something wrong?

To those interested, I found my problem. I never created new curves based on the new numbers. Duh. This is a VERY crude estimate of the Model S’s power curve in terms of lbs-ft and hp. And yes, T = HP at 5,252 rpm. (7,100 rpm is about 60 mph.)

[wheelspeed]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Agreed. Horsepower mattered way more for me before I had a 450hp car. Driving that daily for a few years made me realize that engine response and the shape of the powerband are much more important than the numbers.

Curious tho, would you say it was worth it to have that car for a few years?

At 51, time's running out for me to try a lot of different cars. And one of my earliest movie memories is that Interceptor on Road Warrior. I had a couple good-handling momentum cars but never had a V8. Kinda thinking SS 1LE since it's looking like a '22 BRZ will be tough to get this winter.

[wheelspeed]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

If I was thinking with my wallet I'd just keep the Mazda 3. Replacing it with anything in the next 5 years is a stupid move driven by a desire to have something fun again. I'm also nearing the end of 2 months straight of working every day in Europe and Tahiti. I've got a ridiculous amount of cash in my bank account and want to treat myself. The twins are by far the second cheapest of my options besides sticking with the Mazda.

Ridiculous amt of cash? Want turbo? BMW M2.