Official: New Alpine A110

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by soundman98

give me a rev meter, a clutch, and 4 gears. i don't care that 1st gear can technically go from 0-100. i want the mechanical interaction.

I agree that if they could offer both a manual and an auto, then it would be the best option.

[WolfpackS2k]

Lightweight interactive sports cars are one of the biggest collateral damage victims over this environmental green movement.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Lightweight interactive sports cars are one of the biggest collateral damage victims over this environmental green movement.

What? No I don’t think that’s correct. The real source of the decline is that there’s just no market for these cars compared to 20 years ago. Wages are shit, housing market is trash, most people can’t afford luxuries like a sports car like they could in the 80s/90s/early 2000s

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Lightweight interactive sports cars are one of the biggest collateral damage victims over this environmental green movement.

When did the BMW i3 come out? It was 2650lbs. You don’t think there is potential in the future for more power density and efficiency from a motor and more energy density from a battery? The i3 fit four, was as wide and taller than an 86 and 10” shorter. You don’t think there is potential for a lightweight sporty car?

This is suppose to be 3000lbs, but has more power, battery size and performance than necessary, so its price and weight could fall if it didn’t shoot so high. Still somewhat affordable for what people get compared to say a Taycan in weight or Evija in weight/price.

https://www.electrive.com/2020/03/16...portscar-ap-0/

There is potential if there is demand. Demand is the hard part. I’m paying attention to the news on a future EV Miata. I’m expecting Mazda will do better than these guys. What do you think?

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

This is super cool but also highlights the cost problem for your average enthusiast. The total weight and F/R balance is perfect, and I think the power level is appropriate for an NB Miata. However the cost of components for the conversions is going to have to come down aggressively to put this on the radar of even people who are taking on ICE engine swaps. 20K GBP for a 120hp Miata conversion kit with 100miles worth of range? Thats a huge cost for a pretty decent compromise.

[WolfpackS2k]

No, i really don't see it ever happening. Not with lithium batteries. You won't see anything below 3500 lb.

And no gears, no noise, and the computer steering for you (torque vectoring) = see ya interactive

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

This is super cool but also highlights the cost problem for your average enthusiast. The total weight and F/R balance is perfect, and I think the power level is appropriate for an NB Miata. However the cost of components for the conversions is going to have to come down aggressively to put this on the radar of even people who are taking on ICE engine swaps. 20K GBP for a 120hp Miata conversion kit with 100miles worth of range? Thats a huge cost for a pretty decent compromise.

This isn’t a “better” type of conversion. It is a “to-have-something-different” type of conversion, but swaps are always expensive (they are never cheap), which doesn’t mean an EV will inherently be expensive (just to put that out there), especially when comparing an EV to an ICE with a five-year-cost-to-own. If we are just talking about swaps for autocross or something specific, a larger motor swap and batteries in the trunk would still be possible, and for an EV class, someone might do well in a small field of competitors, but really, this is just for someone who wants something different for a weekend car that they can bring to a cars and coffee and almost never have to maintain. Swaps will get cheaper in a future where used motors and batteries are plentiful.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

No, i really don't see it ever happening. Not with lithium batteries. You won't see anything below 3500 lb.

And no gears, no noise, and the computer steering for you (torque vectoring) = see ya interactive

I feel like I am in a twilight zone. Did you read my post? It has already happened. The Miata EV conversion, the BMW i3 and the Apex AP-0 are all under 3500lbs, or even under 3000lbs, and they all use lithium ion batteries.

Torque vectoring is necessary or inherent. Gearing can be done. The guy that did the EV BRZ conversion used the stock gearbox. I would probably be fine with a 3 or 4 speed as long as I could row my own. If you want noise then they can pipe that into the sound system. Many ICE cars are doing that anyways, so there isn’t drone while on the highway or sound all the time. Many countries are making laws to reduce noise pollution, and many tracks have limits on decibels.

[Irace86.2.0]

I forgot about the super popular and very advanced (sarcasm) Mitsubishi i-MiEV which was 2,350lbs. Another lithium ion economy car that is 1,150lbs less than your 3500lb mark. We surely couldn’t add more weight to this car and get better performance, while still falling short of 3,500lbs.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

This isn’t a “better” type of conversion. It is a “to-have-something-different” type of conversion, but swaps are always expensive (they are never cheap), which doesn’t mean an EV will inherently be expensive (just to put that out there), especially when comparing an EV to an ICE with a five-year-cost-to-own. If we are just talking about swaps for autocross or something specific, a larger motor swap and batteries in the trunk would still be possible, and for an EV class, someone might do well in a small field of competitors, but really, this is just for someone who wants something different for a weekend car that they can bring to a cars and coffee and almost never have to maintain. Swaps will get cheaper in a future where used motors and batteries are plentiful.

Agreed, I wasn't insinuating an EV conversion needs to be faster and better in every way than the stock car. It's just expensive either way you cut it. Buying some EVs is cheaper lol. I wonder how long until we start seeing Li-ion packs made by these aftermarket companies, looks like most are still on lead acids.

For that matter, when are OEMs going Li-po?

[EAGLE5]

If you want a fun as hell EV, just go buy a used Fiat 500e.

If you want a fast and fun EV, just go buy a Model 3 SR. 0-60 in 5.3. 3,582lbs. Ohlins and KWV3 are available.

The i3 is kind of a crap car, TBH. Quick but not fun to drive.

I'm looking at dumping my FRS. It's not as fun as it used to be. I've thought of an EV swap, but yeah, expensive.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I feel like I am in a twilight zone. Did you read my post? It has already happened. The Miata EV conversion, the BMW i3 and the Apex AP-0 are all under 3500lbs, or even under 3000lbs, and they all use lithium ion batteries.

Torque vectoring is necessary or inherent. Gearing can be done. The guy that did the EV BRZ conversion used the stock gearbox. I would probably be fine with a 3 or 4 speed as long as I could row my own. If you want noise then they can pipe that into the sound system. Many ICE cars are doing that anyways, so there isn’t drone while on the highway or sound all the time. Many countries are making laws to reduce noise pollution, and many tracks have limits on decibels.

The i3 is slow, has a short range, and wasn't a sports car - closer to a CUV in appearance. Also didn't sell worth a lick. All the aftermarket conversions you're showing are just that, aftermarket. Sadly not applicable to the conversation (and hope for lightweight fun EVs). That's why I didn't reply to that comment, irrelevant to this discussion

Torque vectoring is needed only for dynamically flawed vehicles. Is that what all EVs are?

And fake noise? Are we really having this conversation. Fake is fake. My GTI has a button to make the engine sound louder. It's horrible. I leave it off. If its not authentic just don't even bother.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I forgot about the super popular and very advanced (sarcasm) Mitsubishi i-MiEV which was 2,350lbs. Another lithium ion economy car that is 1,150lbs less than your 3500lb mark. We surely couldn’t add more weight to this car and get better performance, while still falling short of 3,500lbs.

That "car" is a pretty sweet golf cart.

I appreciate your optimism, but I think deep down you know it'll never happen. It's about as likely as the BRZ getting a turbo

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Agreed, I wasn't insinuating an EV conversion needs to be faster and better in every way than the stock car. It's just expensive either way you cut it. Buying some EVs is cheaper lol. I wonder how long until we start seeing Li-ion packs made by these aftermarket companies, looks like most are still on lead acids.

For that matter, when are OEMs going Li-po?

Buying a new car or slightly used car is typically cheaper than a swap. We can put an LS3 into a 86 for $30k+, plus the price of the car, but it still won't be a Corvette, and it approaches the price. Swaps are never about what is economical; they are all a little ridiculous.

Most people these days aren't using lead acids batteries. Most are using used lithium ion batteries sourced from Teslas or Leafs. Solid state batteries are possible and viable, but they don't seem to be economical at this time.