Why did I wait so long to try the pedal dance

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by steverife

I mean, I CAN get ICE mode with the long press. But it generally isn't something that happens unless I screw up.

My understanding with the pedal dance is that ICE mode happens with a much greater frequency, at least in an autocross setting.

OK, then it sounds to me like the long press leaves something in play that kicks in before ice mode, but the pedal dance negates it so it falls through to ice mode.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Ice mode is more prevalent during pedal dance because you're switching the ABS to single channel mode

Can you share some more about this single-channel mode? You have my attention.

[Goingnowherefast]

Can't believe anyone is driving these cars with the nannies still on. These are such excellent, communicative, and easy to control vehicles.

[NoHaveMSG]

How the heck are you guys getting ice mode so often?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Can you share some more about this single-channel mode? You have my attention.

Not new info, it's buried in here somewhere, goes with the turning off of EBD (electronic brakeforce distribution)
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25494

Easiest to feel when braking mid corner, which you shouldn't be doing but with pedal dance the car senses the light front wheel and reduces braking pressure around the grip of the light front wheel meaning you're basically not braking at all. The single channel mode I mean is that it acts like ABS from the '80s where it reacts to the wheel that's locking and reduces brake pressure across the system to get grip back to that wheel.
Without pedal dance it's computing wheel speeds at all four corners and eases up on the brake pressure on the light front wheel while still allowing the other 2-3 loaded wheels to slow the car down, real useful when you fuck up and want to pull your line in tighter.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

How the heck are you guys getting ice mode so often?

I have only experienced it with the pedal dance and an extremely aggressive brake application. If you're gentle in getting on the brakes or I should say, not a fucking idiot jamming on the brakes like I was it will almost never happen. You're basically shocking the tires and the dumb pedal dance mode can't tell the difference between that and ice, the regular ABS/EBD can. This is in autox, not on the street, I'm not dumb enough to think I can outbrake the computer.

/imho

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I have only experienced it with the pedal dance and an extremely aggressive brake application. If you're gentle in getting on the brakes or I should say, not a fucking idiot jamming on the brakes like I was it will almost never happen. You're basically shocking the tires and the dumb pedal dance mode can't tell the difference between that and ice, the regular ABS/EBD can. This is in autox, not on the street, I'm not dumb enough to think I can outbrake the computer.

/imho

I have yet to have it happen on track in 5-6 years

[steverife]

Go find a slick bumpy surface. Get up to about 60 mph, then turn the car right as hard as you can, then turn left as hard as you can while slowing down to about 18 mph. And try to do it better than hundreds of other people.

You might get ice mode every 30 to 50 attempts.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by steverife

Go find a slick bumpy surface. Get up to about 60 mph, then turn the car right as hard as you can, then turn left as hard as you can while slowing down to about 18 mph. And try to do it better than hundreds of other people.

You might get ice mode every 30 to 50 attempts.

That is more the answer that I was looking for. It sounds like AutoX puts you in situations where it is more likely to trigger it.

[strat61caster]

For me it was 1:1 with trying to break the brake pedal, regardless of pavement or suspension loading.

[steverife]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

That is more the answer that I was looking for. It sounds like AutoX puts you in situations where it is more likely to trigger it.

Absolutely. Mitigating ice mode (or brake lockup in non-ABS cars) is a pretty integral part of the autocross skillset.

...and I think that is why the bulk of "serious" autocrossers in twins don't seem to mess with the pedal dance.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

That is more the answer that I was looking for. It sounds like AutoX puts you in situations where it is more likely to trigger it.

This is a good point. As I was reading that I was like "uh what track are you driving that has you doing that maneuver". Make sense why I haven't had that happen in my 20-30 track days using the long press method (I don't autoX anymore).

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Not new info, it's buried in here somewhere, goes with the turning off of EBD (electronic brakeforce distribution)
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25494

Not there but that's ok. I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I get what you mean about per-wheel vs whole car.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Breezio

Alright peeps. Please clear this up for me.

I thought I read that ICE mode was an occasional problem WITH using pedal dance, and NOT an issue when using the long press.

Which is it? I've always long pressed and never had ice mode. I've shied away from pedal dance for fear of ice mode, plus long press has never intervened in at any time when the run wasn't gone to shit anyway.

Ice mode is *always* a driver error, and *always* a potential issue, with or without the pedal dance.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I have no experience with this, but do have some experience with programming.

If the code kicks in during the least intrusive mode (pedal dance) it would seem to me it would kick in in pretty much any mode. I suppose the long press could leave a case that becomes active in before ice mode, that is absent from the pedal dance, but that seems unlikely.

Just a thought.

The logic is sound.

Pedal dance preserves ABS, as the ABS ecu is separate from anything the pedal dance does.

The pedal dance does not affect ABS or Ice Mode.