TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Presents World Debut of the New JDM GR 86 (Second Gen 86)!

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Blighty

I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think you can tell from THAT outside shot as its still spooling up and its only the high RPM that the sound seems to come on in the cabin.

In fact just before the camera changes away from the outside it does seem like its getting a decent little sound workings its way up. In my opinion anyway.

Ken saying its all natural (and clearly knowing a lot about the car) is very confusing - particularly after being told by Hagerty that its not.

I may have missed this bit of info as I skip around, but why are we even discussing this? Hasn't it been confirmed that this is a sound you can turn on and off? People get the best of both worlds, which is more than most cars have to offer, so what's the problem?

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

I may have missed this bit of info as I skip around, but why are we even discussing this? Hasn't it been confirmed that this is a sound you can turn on and off? People get the best of both worlds, which is more than most cars have to offer, so what's the problem?

I’m getting blue in the face from repeating that both Toyota and Subaru have said you can turn it off. People just want something to kvetch about I guess.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

I’m getting blue in the face from repeating that both Toyota and Subaru have said you can turn it off. People just want something to kvetch about I guess.

We know it can be turned on and off, but I think the discussion is more around how the engine sounds naturally. You would hope a Japanese sports car would sound somehow interesting. While the OG 2.0 wasn't exactly an acoustic marvel, it had its character. This time around, it might just be even more hum-drum. No doubt many of us would have hoped that Subaru and Yamaha or someone else could have made some magic happen, but instead they went the easy route and just programmed in some noise.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

We know it can be turned on and off, but I think the discussion is more around how the engine sounds naturally. You would hope a Japanese sports car would sound somehow interesting. While the OG 2.0 wasn't exactly an acoustic marvel, it had its character. This time around, it might just be even more hum-drum. No doubt many of us would have hoped that Subaru and Yamaha or someone else could have made some magic happen, but instead they went the easy route and just programmed in some noise.

There really is not a lot of magic to be made out of a 2.4L flat-4 engine. Not sure why anyone would be hopeful for a 25-30K car to have a fancy sounding exhaust... at least I wasn't. There are plenty of regulations and emissions to get past on top of that. The real interest for me will be what the aftermarket can come up with that produces quality sound.

Programming in some noise is really just a basic addon that I wouldn't even call an easy route. I'm sure they put a little time into exhaust tuning, but probably nothing crazy. Many people were perfectly content with the way the previous gen sounded, and so far to me, the new gen sounds just fine. Plenty more videos will come soon I'm sure, where you will get to hear the car with the added sound on and off.

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

There really is not a lot of magic to made out of a 2.4L flat-4 engine. Not sure why anyone would be hopeful for a 25-30K car to have a fancy sounding exhaust... at least I wasn't. There are plenty of regulations and emissions to get past on top of that. The real interest for me will be what the aftermarket can come up with that produces quality sound.

Programming in some noise is really just a basic addon that I wouldn't even call an easy route. I'm sure they put a little time into exhaust tuning, but probably nothing crazy. Many people were perfectly content with the way the previous gen sounded, and so far to me, the new gen sounds just fine. Plenty more videos will come soon I'm sure, where you will get to hear the car with the added sound on and off.

This. Worst case scenario you spend some money on a catback you were probably going to buy anyway if you care about how it sounds. The new equal length header should help IMO, assuming it is truly EL this time. With the breath of aftermarket options available on the 1st Gen, I’m sure everyone’ll find something to their liking.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

This. Worst case scenario you spend some money on a catback you were probably going to buy anyway if you care about how it sounds. The new equal length header should help IMO, assuming it is truly EL this time. With the breath of aftermarket options available on the 1st Gen, I’m sure everyone’ll find something to their liking.

So was the FA20 not equal length? I know its not UEL cuz the characteristic boxer rumble is not really prominent (but there are hints of it at certain driving situations, namely going backwards or going slow)

Or what makes this "true" EL vs the FA20 I guess "not so" EL?

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

So was the FA20 not equal length? I know its not UEL cuz the characteristic boxer rumble is not really prominent (but there are hints of it at certain driving situations, namely going backwards or going slow)

Or what makes this "true" EL vs the FA20 I guess "not so" EL?

I have read several times in the past that the stock headers on gen1 are not EXACTLY equal length, and instead have a little variance.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

I have read several times in the past that the stock headers on gen1 are not EXACTLY equal length, and instead have a little variance.

I have the same understanding. At lower speeds the engine has a hint of rumble, especially when going on and off throttle you get a little bit of a "rumble" in the sound. At higher RPMs it smooths out.

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

So was the FA20 not equal length? I know its not UEL cuz the characteristic boxer rumble is not really prominent (but there are hints of it at certain driving situations, namely going backwards or going slow)

Or what makes this "true" EL vs the FA20 I guess "not so" EL?

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

I have read several times in the past that the stock headers on gen1 are not EXACTLY equal length, and instead have a little variance.

Correct. Technically if it’s not EL, it’s UEL. The first Gen was meant to be EL, but slightly compromised to make the manifold easier to make. The facelift made it closer to EL but not quite. The reason they don’t sound like UEL headers is because in order to get the subie rumble, the runners from the one bank must be waaaay shorter than the other. Perfect EL and slightly imperfect EL will sound quite similar, a very smooth tone. It will get harsher and harsher the more you make the runner lengths unequal, until the exhaust pulses start overlapping completely and you get the BWABWABWA sound.



See how the bottom graph the pulses are all evenly spaced and the same size? That’s true EL. The top graph shows the larger pulses grouped together, separated by multiple small pulses. This causes the Subaru rumble.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I've been watching a lot of YouTube documentaries on old cars and updated my limited knowledge of the Corvair. The 2nd gen had a lot going for it being a rear mounted flat engine. Apparently they cost more to make using that configuration and cars like Chevy II, and then Camaro and Nova were cheaper to make. Too bad, as Porsche has demonstrated you can achieve extraordinary performance using a rear mounted low slung engine and rear transaxle making the most of traction at the drive wheels and keeping the front light allowing greater flexibility in directional control. That 1st gen perpendicular axle was very low tech Beetle stuff which shouldn't have happened.

I had a 66 back in the early 80s. It was a great little car! It is also the reason that weird engine noises don't bother me now.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I had a 66 back in the early 80s. It was a great little car! It is also the reason that weird engine noises don't bother me now.

I learned to drive MT in a '68 Corvair, sitting in the passenger seat when I was 9 years old. My Grandmother had one, and had an operation on her right arm that immobolized it the entire summer I stayed with her in '69.

She did the pedal work and I did the gear work. I watched her feet to determine when to change gears.

[wbradley]

It's also a shame for the consumers that they did away with the Corvair only to fill booming demand for compact 4 cylinder cars 5 years later with Vegas and Monzas which were aluminum engined landfill. So was the Chevette. Blech. But, it was about profit, not demanding consumers or stiff competition.

I'm shocked Ford resurrected the Maverick name. That was also a turd on wheels. What's the Pinto going to be, a smaller electric truck?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I'm shocked Ford resurrected the Maverick name. That was also a turd on wheels. What's the Pinto going to be, a smaller electric truck?

The Grabbers were good vehicles. I wouldn't mind owning one.

As far as the Pinto as a small EV truck, that only works if it shocked you every time you got close.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

The Grabbers were good vehicles. I wouldn't mind owning one.

As far as the Pinto as a small EV truck, that only works if it shocked you every time you got close.

At least it wont explode if you get rear ended.