Issues with shifting 3-2?

[HeelToe]

Hey, guys, new here.

This probably been discussed before, but I'm not too sure if they answer my specific questions.

Bought a 2nd hand 86 a while back, drove well, at least transitioning from a civic, it was way better. But the more I drove it, the more I noticed these unfavourable aspects.

I have issues shifting from 3rd to 2nd gear quite frequently no matter what rpm, there's quite some resistance and it feels unnatural in comparison to other cars I've driven.

I have driven another friend's 86, and their car seems to drive differently (more akin to my liking), but they have a stiffer clutch and smoother gear-shifts as well. I'm assuming some work has been done to their car since they burned out their OEM clutch before 30,000 miles and had a performance one installed.

Had a mechanic check my fluids out, there weren't any shavings, and they even went with a different viscosity, which improved some aspects.

And before you ask, I usually have fun with some friends racing around a track in our own cars, being the only "slow car driver", corners are the only place I can really meet them at, but the torque in 3rd never seems good for recovering after a corner, so It's kinda necessary for me to shift into 2nd as fast as possible.


I know the car is designed to be a fun daily driver and not a track car, but I have some decent cash savings, so why not?

I've heard that this is related to the triple cone synchros and was wondering since I plan on getting a different close ratio gearset to make 1st-2nd more track orientated, is it possible to dump the triple cone synchros aswell for one that's more optimal for my preference? Are there aftermarket solutions?

Thanks

[humfrz]

I suggest you practice your double clutching technique and throttle blipping timing.

[churchx]

It may help .. but sounds like some possible issue, if other test driven car had no such issues. HeelToe: out of curiosity, have you performed clutch pedal travel adjustment mod? Sometimes hard to get into gear is due slight clutch drag. Not easily detected in way that it doesn't move car, but enough to make some gearshifts harder to do. Sometimes reason being overdone mentioned mod. If that's the case, worth dialing some dead travel back.

[soundman98]

How reliant are you on the synchros doing the work? If rpms are jumping everytime you clutch out, it's possible the syncros on 2nd gear are worn out.

Try revmatching higher before going into gear. I notice less difficulty with this gearbox over-reving my rev matches than under reving.

And these cars are plenty fine on the track. Street manners are a matter of legal reasons to sell and title the car, plenty of people track them capably.

[churchx]

I rarely see synchros being shot in that relatively new car. Clutch related problems imho are more common.
Though, as any part that sees mechanical wear, they can be worn aswell. In such case, one of alternatives/replacements might be this. Problem being, when one counts in cost of work to change synchros during complete gearbox overhaul/reassemble, total cost .. imho used gearbox from breaker-yard will cost less.

[SCFD]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I suggest you practice your double clutching technique and throttle blipping timing.

It doesn't sound like there is anything mechanically wrong with the car so I also suggest working on the driving aspect as well.

You can also try to find a way to carry more speed and keep it in 3rd unless the corner is really tight and you've fallen way out of the power band. Using 2nd might feel faster coming out of the corner but it doesn't mean it will necessary translate into a faster lap time.

[HeelToe]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I suggest you practice your double clutching technique and throttle blipping timing.

...I'm fairly certain my footwork isn't the issue , as it's the resistance shifting only from 3-2. I can heel-toe every gear fine if not perfectly .

Even normally downshifting plays some resistance.

Originally Posted by churchx

It may help .. but sounds like some possible issue, if other test driven car had no such issues. HeelToe: out of curiosity, have you performed clutch pedal travel adjustment mod? Sometimes hard to get into gear is due slight clutch drag. Not easily detected in way that it doesn't move car, but enough to make some gearshifts harder to do. Sometimes reason being overdone mentioned mod. If that's the case, worth dialing some dead travel back.

I kept my car bone-stock since I wanted to save up for all the mods at once, but I'm not the first owner, so I'm not too sure if any mods were done to the handling, there is evidence that an aftermarket exhaust was put on then removed, so it could be a possibility.

Originally Posted by soundman98

How reliant are you on the synchros doing the work? If rpms are jumping everytime you clutch out, it's possible the syncros on 2nd gear are worn out.

Try revmatching higher before going into gear. I notice less difficulty with this gearbox over-reving my rev matches than under reving.

And these cars are plenty fine on the track. Street manners are a matter of legal reasons to sell and title the car, plenty of people track them capably.

I never really rely on the synchros to match the engine RPM. I always rev-match and never had a difference in rpm downshifting, so i think all is well on that part. Ofcourse, when upshifting, i know how to make a smooth transfer

The only issue is actually getting the shifter into 2nd. It almost feels like there's heavy resistence. Some people have mentioned it could be the reverse lockout plate rubbing too aggressively. Considering they're adjustable and every car is different, I'm going to assume mine is one of those that have it set too close and pop the boot off in the morning to check it out.

Link for reference:

Originally Posted by churchx

I rarely see synchros being shot in that relatively new car. Clutch related problems imho are more common.
Though, as any part that sees mechanical wear, they can be worn aswell. In such case, one of alternatives/replacements might be this. Problem being, when one counts in cost of work to change synchros during complete gearbox overhaul/reassemble, total cost .. imho used gearbox from breaker-yard will cost less.

Yeah, I don't think the synchros are shot, never had any issues grinding.

It would probably be cheaper to get a new gearbox, but I find the difference in stock gear ratio more suited for street driving than track driving, so I'm set on a TRD gear set rebuild later in the future, either that or a different final drive so I don't have to necessarily use 2nd.

[re-animator]

2nd gear is quite a bit shorter than 3rd gear, so you have to blip throttle fairly hard when downshifting to 2nd vs downshifting to 3rd. the shift is a lot smoother when properly rev matched. when not double clutched and rev matched it can be a pretty jarring shift that upsets the chassis.

[Ultramaroon]

Top plate adjustment can be checked without disassembling anything. Just lift the lockout foot and drop it into second. Look for the center of the gate. Now, with the foot down and resting against the stop, the lever should end up in the same position - centered in the gate. Do the same for first.

[HeelToe]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Top plate adjustment can be checked without disassembling anything. Just lift the lockout foot and drop it into second. Look for the center of the gate. Now, with the foot down and resting against the stop, the lever should end up in the same position - centered in the gate. Do the same for first.

Tried that, the reverse lockout gets stuck on the plate, and pushing it down causes the gear knob to shift to the right of centre-position.

So I'm going to take that as my top plate being off?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by HeelToe

Tried that, the reverse lockout gets stuck on the plate, and pushing it down causes the gear knob to shift to the right of centre-position.

So I'm going to take that as my top plate being off?

Be careful. The foot has a tendency to do that because it has its own loose sliding fit over the shaft. You have to do a before-after to compare. If the lever has half the travel (side-to-side) it had with the foot lifted, then ok.

Edit: I just watched the video. Ham-fisted poster does nothing to explain the proper adjustment procedure. https://gt86stuff.onrender.com/t3Por...05HBC002X.html The procedure doesn't have to be followed to the letter but get a feel for the gist of it. Align the plate so the shift mechanism is centered in the gates. IMO, that official process was defined to be idiot-proof and repeatable.