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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 04-14-2021, 09:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Dake View Post
The problem with watching a video of a digital readout is you get flicker. Just like how modern car's headlights appear to flash or strobe on video, you're dealing with two different flickers not syncing up which contributes to the appearance of gaps or slow rates.
You're confusing the hardware flicker (whether due to backlight lamp, PWM of the LED backlight or PWM of the individual pixels if the display is OLED) with screen refresh.
You can still have as much flicker at 2 Hz data refresh rate as at a 60 Hz data refresh rate (assuming a 60 Hz screen).
You see flicker on the graphics of the gauges themselves, and yet they are static

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I really don't think this is something you'll be able to see under any normal kind of operation unless you are literally staring at it while driving down the road (which is not a good idea).
That's arguable.
I definitely manage to glance at the speedometer even when driving on a track at decent pace; the problem is that I can't fully trust the number I see there.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure there's no real reason why they don't just bump the refresh rate to at least 10 Hz.
There might be some minor reasons (watch the reading jump +-1 mph on a straight between T6 and T7 in my video), but those are very much fixable.
It's just apparently not a priority for them.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:38 PM   #30
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I know a guy, he goes by Doc. He's pretty good at getting the timing right though.



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Old 04-14-2021, 11:57 PM   #31
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I know a guy, he goes by Doc. He's pretty good at getting the timing right though.
FWIW, I've already started thinking that I can just read the speed from the CAN bus (like I already do for another DIY device)
and show it on a large 3-digit 7-segment LED display above the gauge cluster.

This will also provide a better viewing angle!
Heck, it might even be bright enough to reflect in the windshield and then I can put it pretty high in my field of view, like the HUD in Corvettes.

Let's see if I find time to try this
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Old 04-15-2021, 12:04 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by timurrrr View Post
FWIW, I've already started thinking that I can just read the speed from the CAN bus (like I already do for another DIY device)

and show it on a large 3-digit 7-segment LED display above the gauge cluster.



This will also provide a better viewing angle!

Heck, it might even be bright enough to reflect in the windshield and then I can put it pretty high in my field of view, like the HUD in Corvettes.



Let's see if I find time to try this
HUD is the way to go.

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Old 04-15-2021, 01:16 AM   #33
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How is this at 32 posts...
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Old 04-15-2021, 02:52 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Kronk View Post
Thank you, this is decisive. Unfortunately, it can be clearly seen that the instantaneous speed is updated approximately every half second.
Fair enough. I definitely the lag in the speedometer. It gives me the same vibes I had with my old S2000.
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Old 04-15-2021, 04:04 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by timurrrr View Post
Ask a passenger to record a video of your dash during a 0–60 mph launch, and review it frame by frame. You'll notice that it will show something like 58 and 62 mph, but not 60. Or, if you're lucky, it will show 56, 60 and 64
Here it's worse than this, because the change of instant km/h is almost faster the double. 60 mph -> 96,5 km/h
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Old 04-15-2021, 06:49 AM   #36
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How is this at 32 posts...
Because there is absolutely nothing else to talk about.
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Old 04-15-2021, 08:47 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Kronk View Post
Here it's worse than this, because the change of instant km/h is almost faster the double. 60 mph -> 96,5 km/h
Correct MPH > KMH

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Old 04-15-2021, 09:38 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Because there is absolutely nothing else to talk about.
So here's a quick way to get jaws flapping around these parts - start a new thread lamenting the fact that the new gen's manual transmission will not get auto rev-matching. (Then immediately get yourself out of the line of fire.)
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Old 04-15-2021, 09:47 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by mazeroni View Post
Ford does something similar. The screen updates all data when it refreshes. It doesn't "skip."
Just because it doesn't skip doesn't mean it's accurate. Increases in velocity are not necessarily linear. If you go from 0 to 60MPH in 3 seconds that does not necessarily mean you pass through every xMPH in between 0 and 60MPH.

However, if at the same time you are using an analog gauge, it will appear to go through each phase out of necessity, thus providing the smoothness that you see simulated here in the Ford gauge, as it is very unlikely it is an more accurate than the other displays. As was already said, its just programming.

There is a polling interval. Depending on the increase in speed the vehicle will have gone from Speed A to Speed B during that time. You can either show the increase in speed by showing the actual number (say 0 then 10) or you can choose to show every number in between (0,1,2,3...,10).

In the first example, you are showing the actual speed at the time it is sampled, minus processing time and display time, so you are slightly past it.

In the second example, you still have the processing time but now you need to eat up cycles covering all the number between 0 and 10, so that by the time you show the 10, you have already accelerated past it, and the display is lagging.

Now mind you we may be talking microseconds differences here, but there is a difference and programming choice has to be made.
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Old 04-15-2021, 09:59 AM   #40
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I love the feeling of progression on km/h-mph and rpm and the precision that gives you the analog instruments.
You can have that feeling on digital instruments only if the increment is by unit and not by time.
I've seen something similar only on Tesla and Ferrari.

Here (0:24) you can see what I mean.


And here (0:34) you can see what I hate.


I know, this is a minor thing but...just to pass the wait.
Yikes, that is bad. I haven't been in new cars with these displays but that would really be annoying.
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:01 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by ls1ac View Post
The early digital speedos did try to show the exact speed. Fine when cruising but unreadable when accelerating or slowing down as all of the segment were flashing so fast that no number was readable. Over the years they have improved by skipping and holding a number long enough to be read.

The first video show that the 1st digit is un readable.
We had the opposite reaction. I find the first video much more readable than the second.
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:07 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Just because it doesn't skip doesn't mean it's accurate. Increases in velocity are not necessarily linear. If you go from 0 to 60MPH in 3 seconds that does not necessarily mean you pass through every xMPH in between 0 and 60MPH.



However, if at the same time you are using an analog gauge, it will appear to go through each phase out of necessity, thus providing the smoothness that you see simulated here in the Ford gauge, as it is very unlikely it is an more accurate than the other displays. As was already said, its just programming.



There is a polling interval. Depending on the increase in speed the vehicle will have gone from Speed A to Speed B during that time. You can either show the increase in speed by showing the actual number (say 0 then 10) or you can choose to show every number in between (0,1,2,3...,10).



In the first example, you are showing the actual speed at the time it is sampled, minus processing time and display time, so you are slightly past it.



In the second example, you still have the processing time but now you need to eat up cycles covering all the number between 0 and 10, so that by the time you show the 10, you have already accelerated past it, and the display is lagging.



Now mind you we may be talking microseconds differences here, but there is a difference and programming choice has to be made.
Yeah I feel like sometimes my car accelerates slower going uphill versus downhill.

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