TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Presents World Debut of the New JDM GR 86 (Second Gen 86)!

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by beltax90

Thats actually pretty awesome.
The BRZ one is a little less dramatic. big BRZ logo shows up but doesnt spin. Just sits there while the background spins and eventually transitions to the guages the same way.

Im actually a little curious if the car is a bit more refined/quiet than the current twins.
everything on the inside appears "thicker"
That might push me to wait a bit until the second gen comes out instead of biting the bullet and trying to jump into a current gen.

[RetroRacer]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What exactly was it "intended for"?
As many Hakone's will get tracked as any other version.
The majority of the PP cars will never ever see a track.

Pretentious "enthusiast" is pretentious.

Wasn’t intended for anyone in particular. Simply speaking my mind. I felt that paying for a Hakone for the same price as a PP Brz wasn’t worth it to me PERSONALLY.

Every post about the new gen I’ve seen of yours you keep commenting “how bad it “looks” and you hate it.

The front fenders you “hate” are completely functional. The side skirts you “hate” are easily changed.

You sound like an ex GF who can’t except the fact that people have moved on.
The new car has a better motor with improved HP and Torque curve, and a 50% more rigid chassis.
You KNOW that this car will be a far better performer than your car, but simply because it doesn’t “look” good to you, you bash it.

Toyota/Subaru both should be applauded that they made this car at all in 2021-22, and especially with improvements in today’s SUV, EV market.

Hakone was only made for ONE year, the fact that you say just as many of them are being tracked/raced over the multiple years these cars were offered is nonsense. These are DRIVERS cars, yes more than 50% of them don’t track them, but they are built for DRIVERS.

My Girlfriend Christine has a 2019 PP BRZ and I absolutely love driving her car, but the new car is most definitely a step up. We get it, you always talk about how the reveal was “unexciting” blah blah. Only to people like you who prefer “looks” over performance.

I’m very proud of the improvements they made on the motor and chassis. There is no doubt this will be a better DRIVERS car.

Funny how you have the word Racecar in your sig, as you never RACE your car.

Again you don’t show any appreciation that a new gen even exists, especially when it’s going to be a much better performing car.
You knock “functional” vents and “looks” while ignoring the MANY improvements.

I love the Hakone green color, always have, I was simply stating for the same price the PP BRZ was more worth the same $ TO ME.

But again, as someone who doesn’t truly “drive” their car, you wouldn’t understand.

I love both generations of the twins immensely, but unlike yourself I truly welcome and appreciate the new car, and don’t knock the “looks” over the far better performance gains , or the fact they are making a 2nd Gen at all.

The fact these cars are coming out at all should be applauded, not knocked.
You may not “race” your car, but for those of us that do, we can appreciate the chassis/ motor improvements.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Im actually a little curious if the car is a bit more refined/quiet than the current twins.

Did you see the buttons controlling the seat warmers?

[WC-BRZ]

Originally Posted by RetroRacer

Wasn’t intended for anyone in particular. Simply speaking my mind. I felt that paying for a Hakone for the same price as a PP Brz wasn’t worth it to me PERSONALLY.

Every post about the new gen I’ve seen of yours you keep commenting “how bad it “looks” and you hate it.

The front fenders you “hate” are completely functional. The side skirts you “hate” are easily changed.

You sound like an ex GF who can’t except the fact that people have moved on.
The new car has a better motor with improved HP and Torque curve, and a 50% more rigid chassis.
You KNOW that this car will be a far better performer than your car, but simply because it doesn’t “look” good to you, you bash it.

Toyota/Subaru both should be applauded that they made this car at all in 2021-22, and especially with improvements in today’s SUV, EV market.

Hakone was only made for ONE year, the fact that you say just as many of them are being tracked/raced over the multiple years these cars were offered is nonsense. These are DRIVERS cars, yes more than 50% of them don’t track them, but they are built for DRIVERS.

My Girlfriend Christine has a 2019 PP BRZ and I absolutely love driving her car, but the new car is most definitely a step up. We get it, you always talk about how the reveal was “unexciting” blah blah. Only to people like you who prefer “looks” over performance.

I’m very proud of the improvements they made on the motor and chassis. There is no doubt this will be a better DRIVERS car.

Funny how you have the word Racecar in your sig, as you never RACE your car.

Again you don’t show any appreciation that a new gen even exists, especially when it’s going to be a much better performing car.
You knock “functional” vents and “looks” while ignoring the MANY improvements.

I love the Hakone green color, always have, I was simply stating for the same price the PP BRZ was more worth the same $ TO ME.

But again, as someone who doesn’t truly “drive” their car, you wouldn’t understand.

I love both generations of the twins immensely, but unlike yourself I truly welcome and appreciate the new car, and don’t knock the “looks” over the far better performance gains , or the fact they are making a 2nd Gen at all.

The fact these cars are coming out at all should be applauded, not knocked.
You may not “race” your car, but for those of us that do, we can appreciate the chassis/ motor improvements.

Absolutely spot on! Agree 100%

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I’m not too big on peak-power, bench racing when we are talking about fractions of a second when there is gearing, tires, redline, area-under-the-curve, etc. You made a great attempt. I’m sure the 0-60 time improved by over a second, but I don’t think these horsepower and torque gains are enough to do that on their own. My guess is that the PS4 tires are a big part of it.

The comparison you made to 8th-gen K20 vs 9th gen K24 Civic Si bears no relation to FA20 vs. FA24. In the end, power/weight is somewhat improved and "area under the curve" is *vastly* improved with the new 2.4. Whatever the gearing or tires, it's not 197hp 8300rpm K20 vs. 201hp 7200rpm K24 here, this is going to be a legitimately better-performing engine that doesn't short-change us on revs.

That said, if 0-60 really is 1 full second quicker, it's gotta be because there's no 2-3 shift required and nothing to do with PS4 tires vs. Primacies (I mean, it's not like the FA20 is a tire-roasting torque-monster).

I can see how people would miss the K20 after the K24 Si came out, and also the F20C after the F22C S2000 came out. But nobody's gonna miss the FA20 when the FA24 comes out...

[PulsarBeeerz]

Critically the k24 made 170lb/ft vs K20 139lb/ft of torque. As this is what actually moves the car, figured it was worth mentioning.lol The only thing people miss about the k20 anymore is its head on a k24 hybrid. haha

[gymratter]

https://bestcarweb.jp/newcar/268839?prd=1

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by blackhawkdown

GR Supra is beautiful. I bet they will rise in value once 2025 hits and Toyota stops making them again.

That is an extremely bold claim my friend.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ZDan

The comparison you made to 8th-gen K20 vs 9th gen K24 Civic Si bears no relation to FA20 vs. FA24. In the end, power/weight is somewhat improved and "area under the curve" is *vastly* improved with the new 2.4. Whatever the gearing or tires, it's not 197hp 8300rpm K20 vs. 201hp 7200rpm K24 here, this is going to be a legitimately better-performing engine that doesn't short-change us on revs.

That said, if 0-60 really is 1 full second quicker, it's gotta be because there's no 2-3 shift required and nothing to do with PS4 tires vs. Primacies (I mean, it's not like the FA20 is a tire-roasting torque-monster).

I can see how people would miss the K20 after the K24 Si came out, and also the F20C after the F22C S2000 came out. But nobody's gonna miss the FA20 when the FA24 comes out...

You can spin the tires in cars with less power. Tires make a big difference about putting all the power or the most power to the ground, which is the most important in a 0-60.

The Civic still added 35tq with the K24, even if the torque tapered off so horsepower wasn’t much different.

Do you have an example of another case of another car adding similar power and displacement and making the same gains in speed that wasn’t linked to the addition of such a tire upgrade? I was looking at old Cayman times or old 911s or old Mustang 4.0 V6 vs 4.6 V8 times or even economy cars comparing hp or displacement or both. Do you have an example? Seems like it is the tires or perhaps one less shift, but not some blistering new acceleration from the 30 more horsepower. I wouldn’t expect big thrills.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Critically the k24 made 170lb/ft vs K20 139lb/ft of torque. As this is what actually moves the car, figured it was worth mentioning.lol The only thing people miss about the k20 anymore is its head on a k24 hybrid. haha

Like this...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

You can spin the tires in cars with less power. Tires make a big difference about putting all the power or the most power to the ground, which is the most important in a 0-60.

Tires are not really holding this car back as far as 0-60 goes. And we already know what 215/40-18 Michelin PS4 tires do for BRZ acceleration vs. 215/45-17 Primacies:
2017 BRZ: 0-60 in 6.2 seconds and 1/4-mile in 14.8 at 95mph on Primacies.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
2018 BRZ tS: 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and 1/4-mile in 14.9 at 94mph on PS4s
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

Seems like it is the tires or perhaps one less shift

And it ain't the tires... Agree that the +23hp isn't nearly enough to account for 1 second quicker to 60, so if it really *is* 1 second quicker it's gotta be one less shift.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Tires are not really holding this car back as far as 0-60 goes. And we already know what 215/40-18 Michelin PS4 tires do for BRZ acceleration vs. 215/45-17 Primacies:
2017 BRZ: 0-60 in 6.2 seconds and 1/4-mile in 14.8 at 95mph on Primacies.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
2018 BRZ tS: 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and 1/4-mile in 14.9 at 94mph on PS4s
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/


And it ain't the tires... Agree that the +23hp isn't nearly enough to account for 1 second quicker to 60, so if it really *is* 1 second quicker it's gotta be one less shift.

I suspect that Toyota marketing may be playing the age old bench racer game of using what numbers suit their case at that particular point in time. They have always pushed that the MT was someplace around 6.2 and ignored the 7.4 of the AT. Now all of a sudden the car is "faster" when it is 6.2 or does it go 5.2?

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by RetroRacer

Wasn’t intended for anyone in particular. Simply speaking my mind. I felt that paying for a Hakone for the same price as a PP Brz wasn’t worth it to me PERSONALLY.

Every post about the new gen I’ve seen of yours you keep commenting “how bad it “looks” and you hate it.

The front fenders you “hate” are completely functional. The side skirts you “hate” are easily changed.

You sound like an ex GF who can’t except the fact that people have moved on.
The new car has a better motor with improved HP and Torque curve, and a 50% more rigid chassis.
You KNOW that this car will be a far better performer than your car, but simply because it doesn’t “look” good to you, you bash it.

Toyota/Subaru both should be applauded that they made this car at all in 2021-22, and especially with improvements in today’s SUV, EV market.

Hakone was only made for ONE year, the fact that you say just as many of them are being tracked/raced over the multiple years these cars were offered is nonsense. These are DRIVERS cars, yes more than 50% of them don’t track them, but they are built for DRIVERS.

My Girlfriend Christine has a 2019 PP BRZ and I absolutely love driving her car, but the new car is most definitely a step up. We get it, you always talk about how the reveal was “unexciting” blah blah. Only to people like you who prefer “looks” over performance.

I’m very proud of the improvements they made on the motor and chassis. There is no doubt this will be a better DRIVERS car.

Funny how you have the word Racecar in your sig, as you never RACE your car.

Again you don’t show any appreciation that a new gen even exists, especially when it’s going to be a much better performing car.
You knock “functional” vents and “looks” while ignoring the MANY improvements.

I love the Hakone green color, always have, I was simply stating for the same price the PP BRZ was more worth the same $ TO ME.

But again, as someone who doesn’t truly “drive” their car, you wouldn’t understand.

I love both generations of the twins immensely, but unlike yourself I truly welcome and appreciate the new car, and don’t knock the “looks” over the far better performance gains , or the fact they are making a 2nd Gen at all.

The fact these cars are coming out at all should be applauded, not knocked.
You may not “race” your car, but for those of us that do, we can appreciate the chassis/ motor improvements.

I agree.

That said, Tcoat’s racecar signature is a meme, I wouldn’t get too hung up about that.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Define sleezy. Just don't take any if their bullshit and tell them who's boss.

LOL!! Define 'sleazy'? Let me count the ways...

Refusing to give a price quote by email. That one is easy, I just immediately forget about them and move on. Any car dealer that won't give a price quote by email these days is hopelessly out of touch, or hoping for a sucker.

Bait-and-switch pricing. This is the problem I've had most often, with both Nissan and Toyota dealers. I get a price quote by email (making painfully clear to them that it's to include all costs, fees, charges, etc., to be a bona fide 'out the door' firm price). I buy cash, no financing, no trade in, to keep things as simple as possible (and head off the inevitable 'we can't get that interest rate anymore' or 'our mechanic/appraiser found a problem with your trade' excuses). Then when I show up to actually buy the car, the price is different, with countless excuses -

'Oh, so sorry, we didn't realize that the car we quoted you on was already sold. This one has almost the same equipment, but we can't match that price'.

'That car sold this morning, we can locate a car for you, but the price will have to be higher'.

'The price we gave you included a special factory promotion that just expired'.

'That price was for a promotional car that's already been sold. The price on this in-stock car has to be higher'.

'We thought you qualified for the special discount, but you don't'.

'The manager just won't let the deal happen at that price, we have to get more'.

'Demand for the car is so high we just can't let it go for that price'.

'Every car we sell has a $995 processing fee, the law says we have to charge it'.

'My mistake, I forgot to include the cost for xxx, but we just can't move on it'.

Those games are also easy to deal with. I walk away. I give the dealer one opportunity to sell me the car at the price offered in writing, and if they won't do it, I leave. Period.

About half the time the salesperson will follow me out into the parking lot, with the usual 'how can we make this work', or 'I'm on your side, work with me and let's find a compromise' nonsense. It never works on me, and just adds some comedy and additional aggravation to the whole situation.

What pisses me off is the time wasted. My remaining time is limited. I don't find it entertaining to spend hours getting to and back from a dealership only to find out that they're playing games to try and squeeze more money out of me, in hopes that if I'm already there I'll cave and fork over a few hundred extra dollars.

For whatever reasons (perhaps in part due to corporate ethics training, or the lack of it), I've had the very worst experiences with Nissan dealers. I went to 6 Nissan dealers trying to find a 370Z, and was gamed by all of them. It was their sleaze that drove me to consider a BRZ in the first place (that, and my wife liked the BRZ a lot more than the 370Z). Toyota dealers have taken second place in the sleaze Olympics in my experiences.

I've had similar experiences with Nissan and Toyota dealers in three different parts of the country where we've lived (Pacific Northwest, Mid-Atlantic, and New England), so I suspect it must be related to corporate policies (or lack thereof) and is more than just an individual dealer.

In comparison, we've bought 3 Subaru's over the past 3 years (BRZ, Crosstrek, WRX), from 3 different dealers. All of those experiences were completely straightforward and forthright. They couldn't have been easier. In each case the dealer quoted me a great price by email, and each time we went in to actually buy the car took less than 20 minutes (the BRZ literally took 10 minutes from the time I walked in to when I drove out). The only hint of anything potentially unsavory was actually funny. Buying the WRX, the salesperson actually said, 'You told me you're not interested in any extended warranty or aftermarket protection packages, so we should probably just skip that?' and we both laughed about it.

I don't know for a fact, and the number of my own personal experiences is not 'statistically significant', but I suspect it's not a coincidence that (over the past 3 years) 3 Subaru dealers all gave candid, honest deals and no games selling experiences, whereas 6 Nissan dealers and 4 Toyota dealers all tried to play slimy games with me.

At this point in my life, the dealer experience is a deciding factor. When I was younger, it was all about the product. If I wanted a particular car, I was willing to endure whatever it took to get it. Not anymore. The dealer experience swayed me from a 370Z to the twins, and from Toyota to Subaru.

YMMV.