Porsche 718 Boxster and Cayman

[nikitopo]

Nice! Give us a review when you have some more mileage in the GTS.

[ripper]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I'm guessing this is the PDK, right? I have heard and read that the 4.0 has the benefits of being a higher revving engine with a better sound that has better throttle response because it is NA, but the 2.5T has more useable, low-end torque considering the tall gearing and can be more powerful when lightly tuned. Plus, it is cheaper and is 80lbs lighter.

https://www.goapr.com/products/softw.../ECU-25T-S-982

I don't know which one I would pick. I would really have to drive them back-to-back, but I would want a manual above either engine option, unless the sound and feel blew me away. Clearly you have driven them back-to-back. I have heard the PDK improves the experience of having tall gearing, so it is the definitely the way to go for the 4.0 and that people should get the 2.5T if they want a manual, so there is some useable torque in 4th and 5th without egregiously violating the speed limits. Even if the motor blew me away, if the manual experience was a dud because of the gearing, I would probably go with the 2.5T.

What has been your experience? Was your 2.5T tuned or modified?

Yes, PDK and to clarify my reference to owning a 2.5T was meant to refer to my STI not the earlier model of the Boxster. All the reviews regarding the manual transmission on this car are very good with minor mentions about the gearing being a bit too tall. The PDK I can tell you first hand is sick and I HATE automatic transmissions, but this one is insanely good; feels super responsive and seamless through the gears.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ripper

Yes, PDK and to clarify my reference to owning a 2.5T was meant to refer to my STI not the earlier model of the Boxster. All the reviews regarding the manual transmission on this car are very good with minor mentions about the gearing being a bit too tall. The PDK I can tell you first hand is sick and I HATE automatic transmissions, but this one is insanely good; feels super responsive and seamless through the gears.

Ok, that makes sense. That flew over my head.

Of course the manual always gets high praises. First and foremost, it gets high praises for just being an option, but then it also gets high praises because Porsche makes some of the best, if not the best, manual transmissions in the world. With that said, you have to be living under a rock to not have heard about the tall gearing problems. I could post dozens, if not hundreds, of car reviews and forum posts or youtube videos discussing the problem with the tall gearing, but here are a few:

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/05/po...g-is-too-long/

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...dr/first-drive

Here is Matt Farah taking a 718 GT4 and a 718 GTS with the 2.5T out for a drive. Note in both sessions how rare he shifts, but he is able to shift more in the GTS because he has low end torque to use, yet still, note his comments about the gearing. Again, I could post dozens of these reviews where the overwhelming comments center around the tall gearing.

https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...ios-speed.html

Max speed in each gear

-------MT------PDK
1-----48.5-----44.1
2-----82.2-----75.1
3----113.9---104.1
4----141.5---132.2
5----168.7---159.3
6----196.9---195.5 (Top Speed - Drag Limited ~ 188 mph)
7-----N/A-----279.1 (Overdrive in PDK - Top speed would be in sixth for both MT and PDK)

Here it is compared to the manual and auto 86, but we also know that changing the final gear ratio on the 86 is far easier and cheaper, and we have many people making the gearing more aggressive, but the 86 has far less power stock, so that is something to consider. I just wish Porsche offered lower gearing as a factory option because the gearing kind of ruins the enjoyment of the manual in my mind.

[EAGLE5]

How did I not know the 4.0 is available now in the GTS? ANSWER ME!
They still gimp the engine.
Manual is fun, but PDK is fast. Used to be the other way around. For a car like this, choosing a manual is like choosing to run a command line OS for daily usage on your desktop. Sure, it's great in ways, but it isn't easy for fast. It's just a fetish. It'd be like a manual Taycan. I mean, it's possible, but why?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

Manual is fun, but PDK is fast. Used to be the other way around. For a car like this, choosing a manual is like choosing to run a command line OS for daily usage on your desktop. Sure, it's great in ways, but it isn't easy for fast. It's just a fetish. It'd be like a manual Taycan. I mean, it's possible, but why?

Some people still want the involvement of a manual gearbox no-matter the engine performance. It is not always about numbers or results, but the feedback a driver gets from the car.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Some people still want the involvement of a manual gearbox no-matter the engine performance. It is not always about numbers or results, but the feedback a driver gets from the car.

I know, but I think it's becoming a fetish now, since modern automatics are so good. We don't control fuel mix, timing, or oiling by hand anymore. We don't hand crank either.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

PDK is fun, but autonomous mode is fast. Used to be the other way around. For a car like this, choosing a PDK is like choosing to run a command line OS for daily usage on your desktop. Sure, it's great in ways, but it isn't easy for fast. It's just a fetish. It'd be like a PDK Taycan. I mean, it's possible, but why?

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

I know, but I think it's becoming a fetish now, since modern, autonomous modes are so good. We don't control fuel mix, timing, or oiling by hand anymore. We don't hand crank either.

I fixed it to reflect your sentiments in another twenty years, so we can preview the future.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Some people still want the involvement of a manual gearbox no-matter the engine performance. It is not always about numbers or results, but the feedback a driver gets from the car.

Exactly.

It might be hard to justify spending the money on a Cayman GTS when a tuned S would be cheaper and faster, if we didn't care about the sound or the NA response and that power band. It might be even harder to justify spending the money on a Cayman GTS when a Tesla Model 3 Performance will do a second faster to 60 and was only 5 seconds slower around Laguna Seca than the GT4, which is fast enough for most people, and it does that while being about $30k cheaper; it would be hard if it wasn't about driver engagement and feel. I think it is silly to say sound matters, NA matters, displacement matters, shifting matters, weight matters, etc, but a manual transmission doesn't matter, when that is such a defining feature of driver engagement.

[wbradley]

It would so be tough to decide when the latest 911 is so good too.

What a blast!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by wbradley

It would so be tough to decide when the latest 911 is so good too.

What a blast!

What would you rather have, a base 911 or a 718 GT4? They are about the same price.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

What would you rather have, a base 911 or a 718 GT4? They are about the same price.

I don't know, maybe the 911 since it will be a better daily. My sister and her husband drove a 2020 911 Cabrio back to Toronto from Scottsdale last summer. Super nice car.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I fixed it to reflect your sentiments in another twenty years, so we can preview the future.

I think it'll be more than 20 years, judging by today's state of the art. Even text to speech still sucks, and that's easy compared to autonomous driving. That said, when I can hop in my car and it can drive me at 150MPH up and down the freeway because the modern systems are that damned good, eliminating traffic jams all the way, then I'll welcome our robot overlords. Then the fetishists can head to the track. The future ain't a Johnny Cab. The future is Automonelli Jones.

Lewis Autonomilton? Hamonomous?
No more Verstappen go traffic?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

I think it'll be more than 20 years, judging by today's state of the art. Even text to speech still sucks, and that's easy compared to autonomous driving. That said, when I can hop in my car and it can drive me at 150MPH up and down the freeway because the modern systems are that damned good, eliminating traffic jams all the way, then I'll welcome our robot overlords. Then the fetishists can head to the track. The future ain't a Johnny Cab. The future is Automonelli Jones.

Lewis Autonomilton? Hamonomous?
No more Verstappen go traffic?

At least you are consistent.

You know, there is a version of autonomous driving that is available for you to experience right now. It is called being a passenger. Some people don’t mind being the passenger. Some people prefer to drive. Some prefer to change their own gears. Some prefer to row their own gears. It isn’t a fetish. It is on a continuum of engagement.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

I know, but I think it's becoming a fetish now, since modern automatics are so good. We don't control fuel mix, timing, or oiling by hand anymore. We don't hand crank either.

Lol. You went too far back in history. Automatics are good in certain ways, manuals are good in other ways. I have both an automatic and a manual and I can feel the difference every day. Additionally, cars are still mechanical devices. They are coupled with electronics, but they are not iPhones yet. I don't see any real reason why manuals should considered outdated or go away in the close future. In fact, companies that still respect their customers should offer a manual option. No wonders why Porsche 911R was such a success ...