What is fast and enjoyable enough for you?

[Ash_89]

So I'm not old (32 y.o) and sociable enough to have had experienced older cars (+30 years ago) which were maybe more visceral due to a lower weight/safety levels and a (debatable) movement away from driver involvement for the sake of making, going fast safely, accessible to the masses but something which has bothered me as an observer of the car industry is the power war which has been going on for ages and to me personally really gotten silly in the past ~20 years.

Of course momentum cars like the BRZ/86 are the cure to this but everyone's needs differ, so what I wanted to ask is, where is the sweet spot for other types of vehicles you own or want to own, in terms of performance?

Not having driven a BRZ/86 much myself, I do wonder if the new engine, with its fuller torque curve will result in a really well rounded daily driver that would provide a really desirable and affordable-ish* gem of a drivers car before we head into an all electric age in the next decade or so.

*Not so fun fact the 86 (the BRZ is no longer sold here) costs the equivalent of $44706,31, here in South Africa, and I don't think the Performance Pack was even an option here.

[Shadzilla]

For me, and I'm sure many others, the problem with high power really fast cars is you have to be really pushing on to get the best from them. Speeds that on the road are too high really, it's taking too many risks. I probably would have disagreed with myself years ago, but now at 36, things are different.

My BRZ is an excellent compromise for a daily driver. It's quick enough not to get into trouble too easily, the great handling is there when you want to press on a bit, and it's fairly practical. Looks great too.

I have an NB Miata as well which needs to go, but that's lovely on a summers evening on country roads. Again, low speed fun - you can really enjoy what the car has to offer.

But then I also have a Caterham Superlight which will either scare the shit out of you or be your best friend, depending on how long you haven't driven it for. At almost 400hp/tn and 0-60 in about 3.8s without a windscreen, that's plenty quick enough for me. But coming back to my original point, that car really only works when you're driving it at ten tenths. It's utterly exhilerating, mind mending - but it will encourage you to take liberties. That one's best left for the track.

[RToyo86]

I think your local driving infrastructure would partially dictate preferences. I have lots of curvy back roads and some mountain routes local to me. Luckily a good track within an hour's drive.
My 86 with header/tune feels fast enough pretty much all of the time now. I can basically use most/all of its performance on a daily basis if I want to without much regret that I'll be doing 100mph every time I squeeze the throttle.

That matters to me. With my job i can't afford to deal with 50+km tickets which result in license suspension, impound and fines. I would definitely get into trouble with a more powerful car.

If the new engine feels similar to how my car feels tuned then I think most people would be much happier with the car out of the box.

[Ash_89]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

I think your local driving infrastructure would partially dictate preferences. I have lots of curvy back roads and some mountain routes local to me.

I find myself envious but more accepting of high performance/supercars when I think about Europe and in particular Germany for the Autobahn, at the same time getting to floor your car everyday might take a shine of hitting those speeds, not to mention the fuel and other associated cost that come with it.

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by Ash_89

I find myself envious but more accepting of high performance/supercars when I think about Europe and in particular Germany for the Autobahn, at the same time getting to floor your car everyday might take a shine of hitting those speeds, not to mention the fuel and other associated cost that come with it.

Pros and cons. A friend lives in Germany and has driven MX5s most of his life and loves them. He now also has a 99 viper GTS which is his more powerful Autobahn and weekend cruiser.

Mx5 is more everyday fun while the viper can provide thrills.
There is always a compromise somewhere. The fact I can daily drive this car year round, take it to track days, Hoon back roads and drive it to work all while averaging around 28mpg is a win for me.

Winter use I'm sitting around 23mpg or 9L/100 with added idle time warming up, winter tires etc.

[DarkPira7e]

For me, between 200-300 whp is great. Most of my cars have fallen into that territory through some level of modification, and it ends up being perfect for me. At that level for most cars, you don't need much and it's not going to terrify you (Voodoo fm2 NA Miata is the exception in my case, the car was quite scary on an autocross)

[Sasquachulator]

My scion IM is enjoyable for me, and its only 137hp/127ltrq.

My X1 has 228hp/258 trq turbocharged. It goes but i barely use all that power. I think the power graph that the infotainment can show, ive only ever really used less than 100hp in everyday normal day to day traffic conditions...

Perhaps my expectations are modest or just low, but 137hp is fast enough for me lol.

obviously there IS a torque deficit on hills in my scion that i can feel but drop 2 gears and this thing can still haul up at a decent clip, noticeably more oomph and pulling power than the honda fit i used to have (130hp/115trq)

I guess thats why i dont think torque dip will ever bother me as im used to such low amounts of torque, and ive never really felt like the low power has been a detriment to my commute.

Anymore power than what i have right now...is just icing on a cake.
I want a Lexus with the V8 but not for its speed or massive amounts of power, but just to experience that glorious V8.

[dpfarr]

My Volvo hatchback has 315hp/375ft lb and it was enough. Definitely a different experience doing a mountain road in that versus the brz.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Power delivery and engagement are more important than power and laptimes to me.

I loved my BRZ because I could push it at 10/10ths occasionally on the street and barely be outside of the law, and because it kept begging for more.

I have an overly built Forester which is constantly getting more and more because it feels like it CAN do more. Why a bigger turbo? Because it was out of air before red line. I wanted it to be the other way. I wasn't chasing power with the BRZ, I was chasing how it felt to drive it, which was equally as enjoyable, but a LOT safer and easier to enjoy every day, every commute...(Though the Forester leaves a stop light WAY better...)

[NoHaveMSG]

220whp I would be happy, 250whp would be perfect for me.

[bcj]

There were kids at school with Dodge 440s, 55 Belaires and the rich kid who had a new 67 RS Camero.
Most of us didn't have the finances to get into that sort of opulence.

The exotic stuff we could afford were things like old VW bugs, M2 flat fender jeeps, 34 Ford stakebed trucks.
Not the high power go fast thing, but low speed torque to get up the muddy logging road where the party was at in the clearcut.

The most fun was had with MGA, TR3 and Nash Metropolitans, so re-purposed tractor engines for the most part.

I only bought a Pontiac LeMans for college commuting because it was rusted out and cost $250.
Dead reliable ride that would always go anywhere any time even after a month under 2 feet of snow.
Drove that down the coast to San Diego and back without a hitch. Not bad for a 20 year old beater.
The next was an Alfa GTV2000. Another 25 year old rust bucket that got the coast tour treatment.
Neither ever left me stranded anywhere.

Power and speed has never been something high on my list of things I gotta have.

[DarkSunrise]

I think power to weight is a better way to think about it. I had a 300 hp, 3400 lbs 350z (PWR: 11.3 lbs/hp) that was about the same speed as my current 230 hp, 2700 lbs FRS (PWR 11.7 lbs/hp). For me, anywhere in that 11-12 lbs/hp range is the sweet spot for backroads and daily driving. It’s low enough that you can wind out a few gears in daily driving without being in danger of losing your license. But it’s still fun in the canyons (with short gearing).

All of the cars I’ve enjoyed the most in backroads/daily driving have been 11-12 lbs/hp PWR and sub-3000 lbs overall (E85 FRS, s2000, 986 Boxster S).

I’ve had cars with 9-10 lbs/hp PWR (987.2 Boxster S @ 2900 lbs/310 hp)and especially with its long gearing, I didn’t like that it was too fast to wind out regularly in daily driving without risking my license.

On the track, some of my favorite cars have been 8-9 lbs/hp PWR although not necessary to have a good time.

[TommyW]

I've owned everything from Miata's to 911 Twin Turbos. The FRS with a header and tune and suspension upgrades is my sweet spot. It all depends on what you want in a car. The 911TT was blindingly fast but rarely could I use it and it wasn't happy below 100. I never tracked it as it didn't feel like a track car but was an awesome GT. The 86 in it's current state loves to be on the track and that is my current priority in a car. " Is it fast?" people ask. I tell em it's fast enough.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by TommyW

The 86 in it's current state loves to be on the track and that is my current priority in a car.

I just want a little more power to push my aero. I lost 8mph on the half mile front straight at one track.