Agency Power Exhaust Thread PT II

[EZWood]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

It's really quite simple. Durring the 4 previous revisions each part should have been dynoed so they know where the gains were coming from and where each modification was having a result. It's basic practice when you are creating and revising things to do this. How else would you know if that bend you just took out of the downpipe gave you the gains, or maybe it was a different wield joint on the headder.

Also there is this simple thing called a baseline. You cread a baseline by running a vehicle in a base form to create a base run to compare all other runs against. Here's where it gets tricky... YOU DON'T NEED A BARE BONES STOCK CAR FOR THIS.

I know the concept of that might have blown your mind, but you can in fact create a baseline with a car that has had a flywheel and crank pully installed on it. You simply put a stock exhaust on the modified car and run it on a dyno. This creates a NEW baseline to test against. Since the parts that you are testing are different than this model you can then replace what parts, and ONLY THE PARTS IN QUESTION on the vehicle.


When you have replaced the parts you would like to test, you try to recreate every other variable as close as possible to the original baseline. Heat, humidity, number of runs, how warmed up the car was, what dyno was used, number of dyno runs before calculating the average, or cherrypicking the top stat (notice if this is done, you must also pick the top baseline run). This will all affect the final outcome of the dyno. The closer you can get to every external variable the more acurate your test will be.

The question is, did the exhaust create the 40 whp 20 tq as claimed in the initial post by vivid racing, or were the numbers incorrect, and why.

It's basic F@'n science 101 guys. It's not trying to solve why quasars and black holes exist.

I was under the impression that everyone wanted to see baseline runs on a fully stock car, then the individual components, and the full exhaust all in one day within a certain time frame. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by EZWood

I was under the impression that everyone wanted to see baseline runs on a fully stock car, then the individual components, and the full exhaust all in one day within a certain time frame. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Well, this is the thread for the exhaust, so we only care about the exhaust in here. Some other guys in the other thread want to see the car dynoed with a basline vs with a flywheel.

Note: for that you can have the AP exhaust on for the baseline, and then run the flywheel on and off for new dyno numbers.

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

It's really quite simple. Durring the 4 previous revisions each part should have been dynoed so they know where the gains were coming from and where each modification was having a result. It's basic practice when you are creating and revising things to do this. How else would you know if that bend you just took out of the downpipe gave you the gains, or maybe it was a different wield joint on the headder.

I could post each dyno run for each exhaust version we made. But why? Those are not going to be sold. Also when you build something new. You tend to keep your R&D work to yourself.

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

Also there is this simple thing called a baseline. You cread a baseline by running a vehicle in a base form to create a base run to compare all other runs against. Here's where it gets tricky... YOU DON'T NEED A BARE BONES STOCK CAR FOR THIS.

I guess you did not read the 1st post in this thread. Which had a BASELINE RUN. Then you didn't read other posts of people screaming that our car was not stock after we did the exhaust. Which was also part of the 1st post.

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

I know the concept of that might have blown your mind, but you can in fact create a baseline with a car that has had a flywheel and crank pully installed on it. You simply put a stock exhaust on the modified car and run it on a dyno. This creates a NEW baseline to test against. Since the parts that you are testing are different than this model you can then replace what parts, and ONLY THE PARTS IN QUESTION on the vehicle.

Once again I hate to do this. But you clearly did not read the 1st post. There is a base run, a Flywheel run then a run with flywheel and exhaust.

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

.

When you have replaced the parts you would like to test, you try to recreate every other variable as close as possible to the original baseline. Heat, humidity, number of runs, how warmed up the car was, what dyno was used, number of dyno runs before calculating the average, or cherrypicking the top stat (notice if this is done, you must also pick the top baseline run). This will all affect the final outcome of the dyno. The closer you can get to every external variable the more acurate your test will be.

The question is, did the exhaust create the 40 whp 20 tq as claimed in the initial post by vivid racing, or were the numbers incorrect, and why.

It's basic F@'n science 101 guys. It's not trying to solve why quasars and black holes exist.

I do not know what else to say. You are beating a dead horse. Please go back and read all the posts. Read the long post I posted today.

[Metabrz]

Originally Posted by EZWood

Do you even own a frs? How are they supposed to do Dyno runs for each part when their car has the light weight flywheel that wouldn't be practical to remove to test the exhaust components?

Actually, no I dont, I have BRZ on order but that besides the point I was (with tongue firmly in cheek) trying to make.

They are running a business............I would expect they have a lot of other stuff to get on with as well as satisfy the FT86 community.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by vividracing

I could post each dyno run for each exhaust version we made. But why? Those are not going to be sold. Also when you build something new. You tend to keep your R&D work to yourself.

I guess you did not read the 1st post in this thread. Which had a BASELINE RUN. Then you didn't read other posts of people screaming that our car was not stock after we did the exhaust. Which was also part of the 1st post.

Once again I hate to do this. But you clearly did not read the 1st post. There is a base run, a Flywheel run then a run with flywheel and exhaust.

I do not know what else to say. You are beating a dead horse. Please go back and read all the posts. Read the long post I posted today.

Actually, I have read the first post, and every post in all 3 threads that have come along.

I was explaining to him how a baseline is done, however now that you bring it up...

The first thread you had made claimed that all gains were achieved through your exhaust. This however was not completely accurate since a flywheel and crank pulley were added. That makes your baseline prior to the other additions null. A new baseline needed to be made post flywheel/pulley installation.

If you read my link it will show you proper scientific method when trying to prove a hypothesis, and yes, this is just that a hypothesis.

Your claim is that the AP exhaust creates X HP, and Y TQ. To do this you would create a baseline with NO changes other than the AP exhaust, and then dyno the parts to prove the validity of your claims.

I'm not asking you to turn all of your R&D work over to the public so your intellectual data can be stolen ruining months of time and losing potential profit to the open market, but what information can be gained by showing the dyno runs from each previous stage of development without showing the actual part?

At this point any argument is moot since the AP parts are hitting the market, and independant testers will be posting their results very shortly.

I have no past with Vivid or AP one way or another, but being a science geek proper methodology is the key to proof of results.

I've stated it before, and I will restate it. If you can verify your claims I will be in line with everyone else to shell out money to buy the AP product, but I would like your methods to be proper.

[Tomzilla]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

Actually, I have read the first post, and every post in all 3 threads that have come along.

I was explaining to him how a baseline is done, however now that you bring it up...

The first thread you had made claimed that all gains were achieved through your exhaust. This however was not completely accurate since a flywheel and crank pulley were added. That makes your baseline prior to the other additions null. A new baseline needed to be made post flywheel/pulley installation.

If you read my link it will show you proper scientific method when trying to prove a hypothesis, and yes, this is just that a hypothesis.

Your claim is that the AP exhaust creates X HP, and Y TQ. To do this you would create a baseline with NO changes other than the AP exhaust, and then dyno the parts to prove the validity of your claims.

I'm not asking you to turn all of your R&D work over to the public so your intellectual data can be stolen ruining months of time and losing potential profit to the open market, but what information can be gained by showing the dyno runs from each previous stage of development without showing the actual part?

At this point any argument is moot since the AP parts are hitting the market, and independant testers will be posting their results very shortly.

I have no past with Vivid or AP one way or another, but being a science geek proper methodology is the key to proof of results.

I've stated it before, and I will restate it. If you can verify your claims I will be in line with everyone else to shell out money to buy the AP product, but I would like your methods to be proper.

Pff, science on the internet. Nonsense.

I'm jumping on the bandwagon of unicorns.

[vividracing]

[vividracing]

Ok we have the base runs done.
Now we are going to install each part one at a time and dyno against the base runs we just did.
Then install in sections. We are also going to run the crank pulley with no exhaust. So we can see the gains the crank pulley makes.

[Symbiont]

Originally Posted by vividracing

Ok we have the base runs done.
Now we are going to install each part one at a time and dyno against the base runs we just did.
Then install in sections. We are also going to run the crank pulley with no exhaust. So we can see the gains the crank pulley makes.

Awesome, can't wait to see results.

[Norcalmav23]

Thanks for stepping up big time. I am excited to see some precise results.

[EZWood]

Originally Posted by vividracing

Sweet car mike.:happy0180:

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by vividracing

Ok we have the base runs done.
Now we are going to install each part one at a time and dyno against the base runs we just did.
Then install in sections. We are also going to run the crank pulley with no exhaust. So we can see the gains the crank pulley makes.

This should answer every question everyone has had.

P.s. I'm getting my check book ready just in case.

[d1ck]

Originally Posted by vividracing

Ok we have the base runs done.
Now we are going to install each part one at a time and dyno against the base runs we just did.
Then install in sections. We are also going to run the crank pulley with no exhaust. So we can see the gains the crank pulley makes.

To be honest I can't say I expected you to do this, but I'm very pleased and impressed. I look forward to seeing the results, and good on ya for making a real effort to clear this up.

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by d1ck

To be honest I can't say I expected you to do this, but I'm very pleased and impressed. I look forward to seeing the results, and good on ya for making a real effort to clear this up.

Thanks... Its lots of work. But I'm not only happy to do this. But excited to.


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Pulley runs are now done. Stock pulley going back on.

Now on to each exhaust piece.