JDL 4-2-1 EL header

[bfrank1972]

Bpbs make a difference, I had them. I didn't run e85 but I don't see why they shouldn't affect the torque curve in the same way. I think perhaps the difference is in the tuning options. In any scenario bpbs will basically compress the torque curve, shifting everything down and narrowing the torque dip if you have one. Effectively fattens up your upper midrange by a noticeable amount, at the expense of some top-end. Shiv demonstrated however that some of the top end loss can be mitigated with increasing timing advance on pump gas - you can push it a bit more at the top end with the blocks since they reduce VE in that upper range. With e85, I don't think there is any room to recover since you are never knock limited on e85 with a NA setup. But you should still see the advantages in the midrange with bpbs and e85. Will be interesting to see what the dynos say.

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[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by Mike_ZN6

I hope we see some feedback on the BPB sooner than later. I am waiting on JDL to build my 4-2-1 now so I should be getting tuned in the next month or 2. If 949 gets the BPB to show real gains I will install a set along with the headers.

x2. Basically waiting for 949 to pave the way and then I'll make the switch the JDL 4-2-1 and maybe the power blocks if things play out well.

We can guess that there's gonna be a power loss up top, but the question is just how much? Hopefully with E85, and William Knose's platform knowledge we'll see some solid area under the curve gains without much top end loss.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

x2. Basically waiting for 949 to pave the way and then I'll make the switch the JDL 4-2-1 and maybe the power blocks if things play out well.

We can guess that there's gonna be a power loss up top, but the question is just how much? Hopefully with E85, and William Knose's platform knowledge we'll see some solid area under the curve gains without much top end loss.

x3. Maybe 949 Racing will get curious about the RacerX IM next and we'll finally see a custom tune for it. I know Delicious Tuning wouldn't mind taking a stab at it. I can dream...

[Mike_ZN6]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Bpbs make a difference, I had them. I didn't run e85 but I don't see why they shouldn't affect the torque curve in the same way. I think perhaps the difference is in the tuning options. In any scenario bpbs will basically compress the torque curve, shifting everything down and narrowing the torque dip if you have one. Effectively fattens up your upper midrange by a noticeable amount, at the expense of some top-end. Shiv demonstrated however that some of the top end loss can be mitigated with increasing timing advance on pump gas - you can push it a bit more at the top end with the blocks since they reduce VE in that upper range. With e85, I don't think there is any room to recover since you are never knock limited on e85 with a NA setup. But you should still see the advantages in the midrange with bpbs and e85. Will be interesting to see what the dynos say.

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This sounds promising because I will be tuning for 93 octane pump gas.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Mike_ZN6

This sounds promising because I will be tuning for 93 octane pump gas.

By themselves it isn't earth shattering(as if any NA mod on these cars is ), but think of them as an additive way to tune your midrange after adding a set of high flow headers. As with any modification to intake or exhaust flow characteristics, tuning needs to be done, ignition, fuel, cam timing. As a package, I think it could be pretty cool, especially if a really good tuner puts the hours in that they did for the Ace headers. The tune for those is really superbly vetted.

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[gpvecchi]

Can you confirm that pipes diameter in mm are 45-50-63.5? Thanks!

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by gpvecchi

Can you confirm that pipes diameter in mm are 45-50-63.5? Thanks!

Have you tried their website?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

It should have. The BPB's shift the curve down regardless of fuel. That is why 949 is testing them, trying to get more at lower RPM and willing to sacrifice some on top.

The nameless header seems to already have that effect without manifold spacer. A bit more torque in the middle but seems to taper off more past 7K rpm.



You might be familiar with it.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by solidONE

The nameless header seems to already have that effect without manifold spacer. A bit more torque in the middle but seems to taper off more past 7K rpm.



You might be familiar with it.

My tune isn't optimized for the nameless header It is coming off my car soon anyway.

[churchx]

IIRC nameless headers in fashion like for ace ones benefited from more specific optimisations in tune a lot, and was not that good with generic OTS EL or UEL tunes. I'd search for long tube headers tune info around.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

My tune isn't optimized for the nameless header It is coming off my car soon anyway.

Get it optimized then? What’s the issue? If I’m not mistaken cosworth uses this header.

[Cephas]

Originally Posted by Mike_ZN6

I hope we see some feedback on the BPB sooner than later. I am waiting on JDL to build my 4-2-1 now so I should be getting tuned in the next month or 2. If 949 gets the BPB to show real gains I will install a set along with the headers.

What MY are they using? I've been trying to find out if the BPB are useful with the 2017+ IM, but not finding any data. Crawford stopped answering my emails.

[Mike_ZN6]

Originally Posted by Cephas

What MY are they using? I've been trying to find out if the BPB are useful with the 2017+ IM, but not finding any data. Crawford stopped answering my emails.

949 is using a 2013 FR-S for their project car. Here is their build thread: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131052

I would think if the BPB can work for the black manifold, they would work the same for the red manifold. The manifolds perform essentially the same at NA horsepower levels. The black manifold actually has a larger plenum. I don't think there is even much data to show the red manifold can make more power with FI.

[Cephas]

Originally Posted by Mike_ZN6

949 is using a 2013 FR-S for their project car. Here is their build thread: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131052

I would think if the BPB can work for the black manifold, they would work the same for the red manifold. The manifolds perform essentially the same at NA horsepower levels. The black manifold actually has a larger plenum. I don't think there is even much data to show the red manifold can make more power with FI.

I would think so as well, was just hoping somebody else already spent the money to find out.