Subaru previews next-generation BRZ, announces November 18th unveiling date

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Spuds

It could also be 40% heavier...

But if its 40% faster......while being 40% heavier, and 40% stiffer.......

Do you get a 40% better car with a 40% chance of it being on the new global platform?

But alot of rumors are 40% bunk so maybe the information we have on this car is only 40% confirmed?

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Spuds

It could also be 40% heavier...

Or 3 pounds lighter to satisfy the anal tendencies on these forums. Make it 3 pounds heavier and you'll never hear the end of it> I can advise people on how to lose a quick 3 pounds though.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Opie

March 7, 2016 - FHI UNVEILS THE “SUBARU GLOBAL PLATFORM”
"The Subaru Global Platform that offers these benefits will be used in the development of all Subaru vehicles from now on, beginning with the next-generation Impreza, due to hit the market in 2016."

March 7, 2016 - Subaru Global Platform Debuts, Will Underpin All Future Subarus

September 3rd, 2018 - Subaru adds models to global platform
"Elsewhere in the lineup, the Crosstrek plug-in hybrid arrives late this year, the first electrified model on the Subaru Global Platform to arrive in the U.S.

The continued rollout of the platform marches on in 2019 with expected redesigns of two lineup mainstays in the Legacy and Outback. Subaru of America is on track to post its 10th consecutive year of record sales in 2018 and the influx of fresh product is key to maintaining the brand's momentum.

BRZ: The low-volume coupe, along with the jointly developed Toyota 86, likely will be redesigned in 2021. When the second generation arrives, it's expected to have more power, a lower center of gravity and possibly Subaru's EyeSight safety system, according to Japanese press reports."

September 5, 2017 - Subaru’s Timeline For New Global Platform Upgrades
"Subaru has confirmed BRZ will see a second-generation model along with it’s twin, Toyota 86. The remodel will come in 2020 and it will be the next-to-last Subaru model to get it."

They've told us for four years it'll be on the SGP...the WRX/STI will be the last model to get it.

Again I agree and have been using those same data points to try to convince people but is is still not "verified" that they have indeed used it.
I want it officially in writing before I go "nah nah nah nah I told you so and you called me a fool".
I actually had threats because I was purposing such an impossible thing.

Please do not use clickbait assumptions and "confirmed" statements as facts.

[StE92ve]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

But if its 40% faster......while being 40% heavier, and 40% stiffer.......

Do you get a 40% better car with a 40% chance of it being on the new global platform?

But alot of rumors are 40% bunk so maybe the information we have on this car is only 40% confirmed?

Just as long as it's not 40% more expensive.....

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Or 3 pounds lighter to satisfy the anal tendencies on these forums. Make it 3 pounds heavier and you'll never hear the end of it> I can advise people on how to lose a quick 3 pounds though.

Perhaps it could be lighter, but you don't typically keep the same overall shape and increase rigidity by 40% by removing material. I suppose you could use lighter materials, but that typically increases the price by quite a bit. My guess is it's weight would have had to increased somewhat, probably closer to 3000lb to be a reasonable price. I am also fairly certain they would at least up the torque to sell, which engine is unknown, but if there are performance models coming out next summer then you can bet the base engine will be pretty boring. Sounds good in some ways, but now you just have a slightly lighter ecoboost Mustang instead of a follow-up to what was.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by gymratter

Kind of looks like a modern Mitsubishi FTO front end.

[wbradley]

I kinda see the love child of the 124 Spider and the last gen. Honda Prelude in those eyes.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Kind of looks like a modern Mitsubishi FTO front end.

There is not one single thing there that is even close beyond "car".

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by StE92ve

Just as long as it's not 40% more expensive.....

So it SHOULD be 40% cheaper then!!

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by wbradley

The reason it won't have a turbo is because the 86 was originally benchmarked to the Porsche 718, and customers were unhappy when that car went from n/a to turbo. So the smart guys at Subaru decided to provide displacement instead, if a larger serving of power was to be included. It's not like Subaru isn't ready and more than able to provide an FI solution if they felt it was best overall for the model. And since the 2.4 was originally designed/utilized as an FI engine, that might benefit people who, like myself, take it upon themselves to make the car somewhat more powerful afterward.
That was out of left field, wasn't it?

That all sounds plausible, but I think the real reason it will likely stay NA is a) to keep the development and production cost per unit down, and keep the car relatively cheap and b) to not overlap with Toyota’s or Subaru’s other higher performance turbo cars (Supra and WRX).

It wasn’t so much the move to turbo that upset Porsche buyers with the 718, but losing the sweet sound of the flat 6. The turbo flat 4 they put in sounds utterly dull and lifeless, even though everyone agrees it was a really good performing engine. If Porsche had simply turbo’d the existing Cayman flat 6, and kept it sounding good (as they’ve done with the whole 911 range), I doubt anyone would have complained much.

The twins are different. They started out as a rather boring sounding flat 4. You’re not losing any sweet 6 cylinder sound by adding a factory turbo. You would certainly be filling in the torque dip, and no-one would miss that.

Also, the older NA Cayman does not seem to have been the benchmark for the mkII twins. MkII mules and camo development cars have been spotted testing with the Ecoboost Mustang and Alpine A110, suggesting they are benchmarking those in some ways. Both are turbo 4 cylinders, of course. Just more food for thought.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Not sure why, but some people sound pessimistic about the next gen model.

Car enthusiasts are like that. Their pessimism and cynicism is armour against all the disappointments life has thrown at them. If you expect the worst, you’ll never be disappointed.

It's supposed to have 40% more torsional rigidity and a bigger displacement as well as other improvements with a new platform. This makes it even a better car to mod.

Where did you hear 40% more torsional rigidity? AFAIK no details have been confirmed, there is nothing but conflicting rumours and speculation.

[TheDonEffect]

The pessimism stems from it increasing in weight, and therefore changing the feel of the car which is the hallmark of this car.

I don't think it'll change that much just looking at the tire choice in the spy pics, if it was going to get noticeably heavier surely they would've chose a different tire/size.

And imo they may be calling it the new Subaru architecture or whatever, but it's just an updated, probably thoroughly revised, version of the current platform. I think we can all agree that it's not unchanged, it's bound to be improved.

And regarding Subaru learning from Porsche about not going turbo, the difference is that they went from H6 NA to I4 turbo. If Porsche went from H6 NA to H6 turbo with a 25-50% power bump, maybe that might've changed some people's minds.

And I think regarding these cars, I think people would actually take the 3 banger turbo out of the GR Yaris over the FA24... see the thing is that the existing engine wasn't beloved. The Porsche flat six is beloved, if for no other reason sound. The FA20 is tolerated.

[wbradley]

There's a 1.8 turbo from the JDM Viziv that provides lots more torque, but probably at low revs like the WRX, which doesn't fit the character of the twins. Best suited to Subarus CVT.
Too bad, that would keep them under displacement penalties for Europe if need be, but let's face it, the big fish is the US and everything else mostly depends on US demand. Certainly, that is what enables Canada to continue receiving this model.
I was sort of chuckling regards to the comparison to Porsche but overall whatever engine is selected will be the one deemed best overall. And a slightly bigger displacement will allow this to continue with the same character as the previous offering more. It will only be a bonus for modders and it appears Euro emission not a concern. I guess Europeans have too many compact sport options on the continent leaving less room for the twins. Germany especially, except new German cars are typically more expensive in Germany than North America. I would have though the twins priced well in their market. I guess they love their BMWs and have a decent supply of preowned Porsches.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

And regarding Subaru learning from Porsche about not going turbo, the difference is that they went from H6 NA to I4 turbo.

Standard 718 is a turbo H4, so still a boxer. Some folk even complained it sounded like a Subaru engine!

If Porsche went from H6 NA to H6 turbo with a 25-50% power bump, maybe that might've changed some people's minds.

Yep, not many people are complaining that all 911 engines are now turbo, because they are still H6s and still sound good. They also still rev out.

And I think regarding these cars, I think people would actually take the 3 banger turbo out of the GR Yaris over the FA24...

Toyota wouldn’t do that, since even at 1.5L and 3 cylinders, the GR-4 engine in an 86 would smoke the 2.0L Supra (stock that is, of course the 1.5 is near its limit, whilst the 2.0 has acres of tuning potential).

The Porsche flat six is beloved, if for no other reason sound.

They do sound amazing. Like an old school racecar at le mans. You just don’t get the same excitement from the ‘pops, bangs and farty noises’ that today’s turbo 4s employ for ‘character.’

The FA20 is tolerated.

Yep, by far the weakest part of the package. Fortunately the twins are more than the sum of their parts.