2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

DSport Mag had the 4 cylinder Supra on a their Dynojet. 345whp/359tq = 6cylinder. 217whp/225tq = 4cylinder. This is a hard sell for $40k... I honestly hope they some how messed up the dyno operation. lol

So they found the 3.0 put 10 hp more to the wheels than was quoted at the crank and 6 tq less to the wheels than what was quoted at the crank? But for the 2.0 they have it making 38 hp less to the wheels than what was quoted at the crank, and 70 tq less at the wheels than quoted at the crank?

Seems low. Most have put the torque over 400 for the 3.0T. I think those numbers look particularly low for the 2.0T.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...no-horsepower/

So we don’t know the price yet, so no point in anyone whining yet. This is Supra deja vu where we had doubters who ate their words later.

Even if this is powered similar to cheaper cars, it is a luxury car. That has to be accounted for in the price, whatever it turns out to be.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I doubt the base Corvette for instance will sell more than higher trims.

I don't think the Z06 or ZR1 ever sold in anything like the volume of the lower-priced "base" Corvettes.

I recall the Ferrari Testerossa sold more than the base model.

Difficult to believe the Testarossa sold more vs. 308, 328, 348 or F355 it was sold alongside, but maybe, source? God knows the smaller/cheaper Ferraris looked WAY better than the ginormous slabtastic Testarossa, but then rich people aren't always known for their aesthetic sensibilities... Then as now I'd rather have the junior Ferrari and a pile of cash...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I don't think the Z06 or ZR1 ever sold in anything like the volume of the lower-priced "base" Corvettes.

Difficult to believe the Testarossa sold more vs. 308, 328, 348 or F355 it was sold alongside, but maybe, source? God knows the smaller/cheaper Ferraris looked WAY better than the ginormous slabtastic Testarossa, but then rich people aren't always known for their aesthetic sensibilities... Then as now I'd rather have the junior Ferrari and a pile of cash...

I agree. The Z06 and ZR1 might be more power than most want to pony up for, but the other models and trim packages should be very popular, which will likely spec the Vette far above the trim levels of the Supra, especially considering the highest trims of the Supra is where the base Vette basically starts.

https://www.wallacechev.com/blog/che...-buying-guide/

Including revised variations, almost 10,000 cars in total were produced, making it one of the most mass-produced Ferrari models.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrar...ossa#Reception

The F355 came after the Testerrosa and was very popular selling 11k units with a few years of cross overs. The F348 sold 8.8k. F328 sold 7.4k. The F308 was before the Testerossa.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I agree. The Z06 and ZR1 might be more power than most want to pony up for, but the other models and trim packages should be very popular, which will likely spec the Vette far above the trim levels of the Supra, especially considering the highest trims of the Supra is where the base Vette basically starts.

Ah, you mean trim levels like LT2, LT3 and Z51 handling package, not the Z06 or ZR1 versions. I gotcha...

The F355 came after the Testerrosa and was very popular selling 11k units with a few years of cross overs. The F348 sold 8.8k. F328 sold 7.4k. The F308 was before the Testerossa.

Wikipedia says the Testarossa sold *almost* 10,000 units including the later 512 TR and F512 M models, from 1985 to 1996. It was sold alongside the 308 in 1985, then the 328, 348 and then the F355 in '95-'96. Year-by-year and overall they sold more of the 3xx cars...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Ah, you mean trim levels like LT2, LT3 and Z51 handling package, not the Z06 or ZR1 versions. I gotcha...

What I said is inline with what every car article says, which is by the time people are done spec'ing the Vette, the average price will greatly exceed the Supra. The Supra will probably average from its range, closer to $53-54k is my guess. The Vette (excluding Z06+ models) will probably sell on average with the Z51 and LT2, which puts it closer to $70k+.

Originally Posted by ZDan

Wikipedia says the Testarossa sold *almost* 10,000 units including the later 512 TR and F512 M models, from 1985 to 1996. It was sold alongside the 308 in 1985, then the 328, 348 and then the F355 in '95-'96. Year-by-year and overall they sold more of the 3xx cars...

I see what you are saying. Yes, it is probably the case that the lower models sold more overall when added together. I don't have a year by year breakdown like I did of the Supras. Just like the Supra TT vs NA stats I posted, perhaps they sold more of the Testarossa over the base Ferraris in some of those years, especially as the production of the 328 ran down before the 348 was released. Considering the Testarossa was in production for so long, the 3xx cars had the new car sales appeal, but one of the reasons it ran for so long was because it was such a hot seller for its price. For instance, I don't know if the 328 was in production for the whole time the Testarossa was in production that it would have sold more units, and even if it was 50/50, that would still be impressive for the Testarossa, which going back, was only trying to illustrate the idea that a higher trim or more expensive model car outsell the lower trim. It is more about value sometimes.

[Irace86.2.0]

@ZDan ...

Thanks for the correction. I was quoting memory from an article, and in context, it doesn't hold as much water, but there are other examples that I could have used that show that cheap doesn't always equal volume.

The Ford F150 outsells the small Ford Ranger by a wide margin. The same can be said about the smaller crossovers and sedans. The Corolla outsells the Yaris. There is an idea that there is an ideal utility or size. Similarly, for a sports car, there could be more value in the 3.0T for many buyers (depending on the price) and what someone gains in performance. It is probably one of the reasons why the GT Mustang sells so well (as a heavy sports car) alongside the lower models.

https://carsalesbase.com/us-toyota-rav4/

https://carsalesbase.com/us-toyota-chr/

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

What I said is inline with what every car article says, which is by the time people are done spec'ing the Vette, the average price will greatly exceed the Supra. The Supra will probably average from its range, closer to $53-54k is my guess. The Vette (excluding Z06+ models) will probably sell on average with the Z51 and LT2, which puts it closer to $70k+.

Mine would be Z51/LT1, $65k. Not a bad deal I guess but I just don't care for the looks of it, and it has unfortunately developed a bit of a weight problem... I'd definitely go (albeit a lot slower!) with the Supra 2.0 and keep $20k in my pocket

...perhaps they sold more of the Testarossa over the base Ferraris in some of those years, especially as the production of the 328 ran down before the 348 was released.

1338 328s produced for the 1989 model year. Testarossa averaged 833/yr.

was only trying to illustrate the idea that a higher trim or more expensive model car outsell the lower trim. It is more about value sometimes.

Yeah, point taken.

But damn I just always hated the Testarossa. We never got the predecessor BB/BBi in the U.S., that car was just gorgeous. Then they gave us a bloated slab-sided 3800 lb. Testosteroni. Yuck...

[Dadhawk]

Saw my first Supra today. Oddly enough it was in the used car lot at a Chrysler/Jeep dealership on my commute. 4,002 miles on it.

Must be an interesting story there.

https://www.pauldingchryslerdodgejee...DB4C00LW025465

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Saw my first Supra today. Oddly enough it was in the used car lot at a Chrysler/Jeep dealership on my commute. 4,002 miles on it.

Must be an interesting story there.

https://www.pauldingchryslerdodgejee...DB4C00LW025465

I’ve seen two. Both were hideous. Found some salvage ones already too. They look better crashed.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

There is no way it produces mid 200 hp, it does 0-60 in 4.9s

It's an amazing thing taking a modern automatic transmission and combining it with a turbo engine and sticky tires. You end up with 0-60 numbers that make a car look much faster than it is.

4 cylinder Guilia (280hp) can hit 60 in less than 5 seconds.
4 cylinder Audi A4 Quattro can hit 60 in low 5 seconds.
WRX can hit 60 just under/over 5 seconds (depending on where you look).

Are any of those cars really fast? No. A much better determination of how fast a car is is 5-60 mph.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I’ve seen two. Both were hideous. Found some salvage ones already too. They look better crashed.

I have to say, I'm not a fan myself. I wanted to like it, I just don't.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

It's an amazing thing taking a modern automatic transmission and combining it with a turbo engine and sticky tires. You end up with 0-60 numbers that make a car look much faster than it is.

4 cylinder Guilia (280hp) can hit 60 in less than 5 seconds.
4 cylinder Audi A4 Quattro can hit 60 in low 5 seconds.
WRX can hit 60 just under/over 5 seconds (depending on where you look).

Are any of those cars really fast? No. A much better determination of how fast a car is is 5-60 mph.

That's fair, cars launch much better than they did even 10 years ago, and torque converters can load the turbo up before letting go of the brake.

[Mike_ZN6]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

DSport Mag had the 4 cylinder Supra on a their Dynojet. 345whp/359tq = 6cylinder. 217whp/225tq = 4cylinder. This is a hard sell for $40k... I honestly hope they some how messed up the dyno operation. lol

If the Supra 4 cylinder is only making 217hp/225tq there is no way the 2nd gen twin is going to get a turbo. Why would anyone buy a 4 cylinder Supra when you would get more power from an 86 for much less?

[BA9092]

I didn't like it at first, but it has since grown on me. I like how the MK5 looks - muscular and organic.

I've always been a fan of car design. Most designs now are overly angular shapes (like the C8), almost a polar opposite of the jellybean-look we all saw in the early 90s. I prefer it to the MK4 design which to me looked like a Neon coupe on steroids. (But I was always more partial to the Z cars instead.)

I think the MK5 looks like an evolved bigger brother to the twins - especially considering how many people (including law enforcement) mistake our cars for the "new Supra."

IMHO, every car model should have some evolutionary visual affiliation with its heritage and/or predecessor if it's going to bear the same name.