2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[Irace86.2.0]

Im guessing the next gen 86 will have a high compression d4s variant of the fa24 or the same engine as before with chassis changes. It doesn’t need much to compete in the mid to high $20k segment.

The quality of the two cars are night and day different. They could have identical power and still sell at vastly different price points, even if the SZ-R was slower. It has happened before all over the car industry.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by BA9092

Another possible scenario would be if the current 86/BRZ ceases production prior to a future gen.

I think this is a distinct possibility. I’d be very surprised if a traditionally conservative corporation like Toyota kept producing two separate low volume RWD sports coupes (86 and Supra) in the current economic climate and consumer market.

The ‘sensible’ business decision would be to axe the gen II 86 and focus on the 2.0 and 3.0 Supras going forward. Main problem being the high cost of producing the 4 cylinder - probably not much different to the manufacturing cost of the 6 cylinder - in markets where people expect the 2.0 to be significantly cheaper than the 3.0. One benefit of the 86 is production cost is likely much lower than the 2.0 Supra, which allows Toyota to position the 86 in an ‘affordable’ price bracket the Supra will never be able to fit in.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Have you driven one already or just looked at numbers? The few reviews I've seen so far disagree completely. The "255hp" is closer to 280-290hp and thats before a 30hp/60ft+ warranty retaining Dinatronics tune. BMW often underrates their engine outputs as you know anyway. The true 50/50 weight distribution seems to have done the chassis a world of good according to those who have driven at least.

Haven’t driven one yet, and I’m sure the B48 is underrated in the 2.0 Supra... thing is, that engine is also heavily underrated in the Minis and M135i Xdrive too. It’s underrated in everything BMW put it into, which means even if the ‘255 HP’ tune is WHP in reality, the same is also true of the ‘300 HP’ tune in the JCWs and M135i Xdrive. Same engine, no reason the Supra should not have the 300 (WHP) tune given to the Mini JCWs!

Yes, yes, the lighter nose and better balance of the 2.0 Supra vs the 3.0 is good. I just don’t want Toyota to skimp on the engine. Especially with the 2021 3.0 getting a power bump, there is plenty of room to turn the wick up on the 2.0. Change my mind!

[BA9092]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Haven’t driven one yet, and I’m sure the B48 is underrated in the 2.0 Supra... thing is, that engine is also heavily underrated in the Minis and M135i Xdrive too. It’s underrated in everything BMW put it into, which means even if the ‘255 HP’ tune is WHP in reality, the same is also true of the ‘300 HP’ tune in the JCWs and M135i Xdrive. Same engine, no reason the Supra should not have the 300 (WHP) tune given to the Mini JCWs!

Yes, yes, the lighter nose and better balance of the 2.0 Supra vs the 3.0 is good. I just don’t want Toyota to skimp on the engine. Especially with the 2021 3.0 getting a power bump, there is plenty of room to turn the wick up on the 2.0. Change my mind!

Maybe it is underrated as many have found out with the B58. And maybe they have more power coming up for 2022 as well.

[gymratter]

i dont see the 86 going anywhere. imo, there is just too much of a price differences between the two for the 2.0 Supra to fill.

Japan
86: 2,671,900 Yen or 24,776 USD
2.0 Supra: 4,990,741 Yen or 46,278 USD

differences of 2,318,841 or 21,502 USD

France
86: € 28,490 Yen or 30,941 USD
2.0 Supra: € 53,900 or 58,534 USD

differences of € 25,410 or 27,593 USD

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by BA9092

Maybe it is underrated as many have found out with the B58. And maybe they have more power coming up for 2022 as well.

It's the same way BMW has rated their engines for about 15 years now. Claimed motor output can be measured at the wheels in reasonable conditions, I guarantee this 4 banger Zupra will come out with dynos of ~250ish whp and as already mentioned a simple piggyback will throw another 30+ hp onto the pile that will be a hundred+ pounds lighter with better weight distribution than the 6 cylinder.

I'd take this new 4 banger z4 coupe over a mk4 in a heartbeat.

[gymratter]

[BA9092]

Originally Posted by gymratter

Yeah, I saw that earlier too.

I know the mid-engine C8 is a huge technological achievement by GM and certainly a bargain.

However, it does nothing for me. I actually prefer the C7, but then again, I've never been a Vette guy.

[Irace86.2.0]

I thought the Supra comparison wasn't the best apples to apples comparison, as we all know the Supra is $10k cheaper and the Vette will easily average much more money.

The Vette has always been the bargain super car, which was compared to the Viper domestically, and to the 911, R8 and other entry level exotics, yet now, they have done a lot to truly make it comparable to those other super cars.

Compared to its rivals, the Corvette was always difficult to handle, and it was harder to put the power to the ground. It wasn't as refined. It wasn't as customizable. It didn't have the latest technology.

Now the Corvette is mid engine, so it handles better, puts the power to the ground better, and it looks more exotic. It has a new dual clutch transmission, which elevates its technology to match other exotics and places it more in line with them as a track weapon. Lastly, they raised the bar big time on the interior. It is fully customizable, while also having the flair that is typically seen in supercars. All this was done at a fraction of the price, but again, the Supra is not the competition; it is those exotics. The 911 has been the bargain supercar, but now, the Vette is a real threat.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by BA9092

However, it does nothing for me. I actually prefer the C7, but then again, I've never been a Vette guy.

same here, in photo it looks odd. maybe i'll change my mind after seeing one in real life.

[BA9092]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I thought the Supra comparison wasn't the best apples to apples comparison, as we all know the Supra is $10k cheaper and the Vette will easily average much more money.

The Vette has always been the bargain super car, which was compared to the Viper domestically, and to the 911, R8 and other entry level exotics, yet now, they have done a lot to truly make it comparable to those other super cars.

Compared to its rivals, the Corvette was always difficult to handle, and it was harder to put the power to the ground. It wasn't as refined. It wasn't as customizable. It didn't have the latest technology.

Now the Corvette is mid engine, so it handles better, puts the power to the ground better, and it looks more exotic. It has a new dual clutch transmission, which elevates its technology to match other exotics and places it more in line with them as a track weapon. Lastly, they raised the bar big time on the interior. It is fully customizable, while also having the flair that is typically seen in supercars. All this was done at a fraction of the price, but again, the Supra is not the competition; it is those exotics. The 911 has been the bargain supercar, but now, the Vette is a real threat.

True. Not an ideal apples-to-apples.

However, not too long ago, we had SLOWER supercars than the current Supra:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/eigh...-toyota-supra/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by BA9092

True. Not an ideal apples-to-apples.

However, not too long ago, we had SLOWER supercars than the current Supra:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/eigh...-toyota-supra/

Yeah, the ZF8 transmission and a turbo really helps it to 60 over those NA engines with older or clunky transmissions.

The Supra will also destroy the base Vette with a tune and what not, but probably not in lap times, but I can't say that for sure, yet all that doesn't really matter. The Vette just got that much more exotic, but the Supra is just another GT car, so 0-60 times aside, that is what we are talking about.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by BA9092

Maybe it is underrated as many have found out with the B58. And maybe they have more power coming up for 2022 as well.

Probably, the B48 already has a 225kW/300hp version. Just like the B58, it'll get upgraded. Unfortunately, demand could be low for the first model year if everyone waits for the second model year.

[PulsarBeeerz]

DSport Mag had the 4 cylinder Supra on a their Dynojet. 345whp/359tq = 6cylinder. 217whp/225tq = 4cylinder. This is a hard sell for $40k... I honestly hope they some how messed up the dyno operation. lol