Do intake systems really make a difference?

[Keith@AIRAID]

Just a couple of points regarding intakes in general, and not in an effort to sell you an Airaid.

1. There will always be naysayers, and for some reason it's cool to be negative on forums. Also every forum trends in a certain direction. Go on the Tacoma forum and nobody runs intakes, but go on the Titan forum and every single truck has one. This brand is the best, and this one sucks. You will get a different opinion every time. Yes some vehicles are more responsive to certain mods than others, but mob mentality also has a lot to do with it. Remember that you are taking advice from someone on a forum and you probably don't personally know their level of credibility or first hand knowledge.

2. On dyno numbers: If aftermarket parts were just snakeoil and didn't truly make power, we would not have an expensive AWD dyno and a flowbench sitting here taking up space. A legit company will develop products that make proven power on a dyno.

You also need to understand that a dyno is a relative measurement tool. The results depend on the operator and a multitude of factors such as the initial weight and drag data entered, tire pressure, ambient air temp, weather correction, gear choice, even how tight the tiedown straps are. As noted earlier, runs need to be done back to back on the same day, and also multiple runs need to be taken then averaged to know that you are getting repeatable numbers.

[Erroneous]

Originally Posted by Keith@AIRAID

Just a couple of points regarding intakes in general, and not in an effort to sell you an Airaid.

1. There will always be naysayers, and for some reason it's cool to be negative on forums. Also every forum trends in a certain direction. Go on the Tacoma forum and nobody runs intakes, but go on the Titan forum and every single truck has one. This brand is the best, and this one sucks. You will get a different opinion every time. Yes some vehicles are more responsive to certain mods than others, but mob mentality also has a lot to do with it. Remember that you are taking advice from someone on a forum and you probably don't personally know their level of credibility or first hand knowledge.

2. On dyno numbers: If aftermarket parts were just snakeoil and didn't truly make power, we would not have an expensive AWD dyno and a flowbench sitting here taking up space. A legit company will develop products that make proven power on a dyno.

You also need to understand that a dyno is a relative measurement tool. The results depend on the operator and a multitude of factors such as the initial weight and drag data entered, tire pressure, ambient air temp, weather correction, gear choice, even how tight the tiedown straps are. As noted earlier, runs need to be done back to back on the same day, and also multiple runs need to be taken then averaged to know that you are getting repeatable numbers.

I'm not disagreeing with everything you're saying here, but just because a company sells items doesn't mean they work, and often "proven" results are far from credible. Have you ever see an ab lounge or a shake weight?

I don't think anyone here is being negative for no other reason than to be negative.

[Echo]

Absolutely not, I'm not trying to be negative for no other reason than to be negative. I'm considering what I have to do to make my Auto FRS slightly more aggressive. If the auto can take a turbo, heeeeell yeah!

[Keith@AIRAID]

Originally Posted by Erroneous

I'm not disagreeing with everything you're saying here, but just because a company sells items doesn't mean they work, and often "proven" results are far from credible. Have you ever see an ab lounge or a shake weight?

I don't think anyone here is being negative for no other reason than to be negative.

I agree with your point. It's really up to the enthusiast to know what they are looking at and use their own discretion. Point is, it's easy to make a bogus claim so you have to know what you are looking at and what the source is.

I didn't mean to put so much emphasis on the negativity thing. I was trying to make a point about the mob mentality of forums and the effect it has on people's choices when they decide how to mod their car.

[Dave-ROR]

The reason I buy an intake is generally pretty simple.. My hearing kinda sucks and it's really hard for me to read the engine by sound with a helmet on. Hence, an intake. It's louder and makes it easy for me to drive on track/autocross without looking at the tach.

If it makes power, great. But that's usually not my main goal (unless the intake is horrible designed from the factory).

[Bu-Tang]

Yea, think of an intake as more of a "pleasure" mod, IMO on all Honda's i've worked on intakes generally make the engine feel more free to rev, As Dave-ROR said it gives you way more sound. I remember the first intake I installed on my H22, sound in vtec was heaven, but even the growl it made in low RPM was sweet. Just being able to hear more.
on small engines like this it would be hard to make significant power with just an intake.

[jkonquer]

Power gains from aftermarket intake depends on what type of car you drive. Turbo/larger displacement cars usually see more gain as NA cars is very minimal. Then gain, turbo/bigger displacement cars usually see more gain in any mods. What you posted of intake theory is very true.
Just like suspension tuning, you would want to get different types of intakes according what you are planning on doing. For example for faster response you would want to stick with factory intake or short ram and for maximum hp gain, you can go with cold air intake.
Is it worth the money? I would have to say yes and no. Some companys offer great reliable intake system where as others offer intake that will hurt the performance and engine. Lot of time it comes down to aesthetics and sound, however little hp here and there will eventually adds up.

Just do your research and think about tuning (ecu) your car over any other mods. My wrx sti made little or no different with stock intake vs short ram intake once the car was tuned. It actually hurt the engine before it was tuned.

Also many track racers get straight piping for top end hp and just pure sound alone

[Max Schnell]

Originally Posted by Echo

Absolutely not, I'm not trying to be negative for no other reason than to be negative. I'm considering what I have to do to make my Auto FRS slightly more aggressive. If the auto can take a turbo, heeeeell yeah!

Modding a car with one bolt-on NA thing only will likely not make any difference in feel of the car. Unfortunately 5hp mod + 5hp mod usually does not equal 10hp. You may bolt-on on three mods that all claim a 10whp gain and only see a total gain of 12whp with a corresponding loss in torque and feel the low end loss more than the top end gain day to day.

If you truly want to "feel" the difference I would wait on a supercharger or turbocharger kit. Alternatively you may have to do 4-5 bolt-on pieces that work together all at once. (intake, header, exhaust, pulley, and tune)

Take your racer friend's inputs with a grain of salt too. Racers are often jaded by the sheer amount of money they have already wasted testing aftermarket mods while trying to find the best combination.

[ultra]

There's 3 things to worry about with aftermarket intakes:

1. They might throw your AFRs off towards the lean side if they're not properly designed & tested, possibly damaging your motor and/or throwing CELs. I.e. You would need a tune, which is an extra cost that you need to weigh against any gains.

2. They might skimp on filtration, letting more crap into your motor.

3. Getting more power out of an intake requires R&D. There's lots of factors such as flow and turbulence to consider. No R&D = do not buy IMO.

You can get noticeable gains from a well designed intake combined with a good exhaust setup on the other end but without a tune those will be minimal and even with a tune, don't expect an easy bolt-on 20whp.

The main reason I'd consider an intake alone is sound, and being able to delete the noise generator to clean up the engine bay a bit but I'd never sacrifice filtration or AFRs.

[jedibow]

advantages

Increased awareness of the engine in it's operating range.
Smoother MAF readings which leads to smoother transitions in power (throttle modulation).
Possible increase in torque and horsepower.
Increased intake air velocity if a venturi is used.
Possible increased fuel mileage (increased volumetric efficiency).
Increase in throttle response
Good filtration (depends on filter element).
Reusable filter element
Cosmetic appeal

Drawbacks

Increase in NVH (noise, vibration, and harness) personal preference.
MAP based cars REQUIRE a tune because of the change in VE (volumetric Efficiency), MAF based vehicles MAY require the MAF to be recalibrated depending on tube diameter.
Packaging (cold air sometimes requires cutting fender wells).
Improper AFR (air to fuel ratio) if either MAF located in a poor position, or incorrect tubing diameter used (see above).
Poor filtration (depends on filter element).
Possible MAF sensor contamination (oiled element).

That's all I can think of right now, ultimately it is the end user's decision, I'm tired, time for bed Good night...

G

[AJUSA.com]

Originally Posted by Echo

Hmm yes, I see their Dyno chart, that's like a good 2 weeks between runs in third gear. I'd like to see a back-to-back run. Although the way they handled their Dyno... not sure, but they lost a bit of credibility for me.

I might just grab some springs, lower the car and call it a day.

BTW How does the Airaid compare?

The Airaid system is really coming along quite nicely and is sure to be one of the most developed systems on the market when released. No AFR problems, no CELs, proven power, priced below the other systems on the market, easy installs! Airaid is a company that really "gets it" when it comes to building intake systems.

Check out the progress of the system here: www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8104

[TouchMyHonda]

You can make significant power over a stock unit if its not optimized for power. Usually a high compression motor wants tt breath more than it is allowed with stock boxes. The best intakes are cheap ass metal aluminum tubes that are length/bent tuned on a dyno.

I made my intake using different lengths, diameter, and bend mock tubes between pulls to figure out what made the best power. not something every one has access to.

Metal intake tubes for the win. Something like a fancy ARC box ($$$$) will more than likely do nothing or even hurt you.

[MmmHamSandwich]

My K20 makes wonderful music with a SRI. Really enhances my enjoyment of the car. Probably kills my mileage around town since the sounds is addictive, but oh well. That engine noise is likely the thing I'll miss most when I say goodbye to my Si.

One other nice thing is an intake generates basically stock levels of noise until you get on it, unlike many aftermarket exhausts. I hate extra noise when cruising.

[SUB-FT86]

I would say the auto in this car can handle another 40 lb ft of torque which is all I would care for. In the IS250 the auto handles 184 lb ft which is 33 lb ft more than what the FRS engine produces. I think 40lb ft and a slightly more aggressive final drive(4.5) would make a difference enough for me.