So i havent seen many people mention this...

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by SOB

I'd much prefer a forced induction motor then some NA high revving one. Take a look at the Honda S2000 for an example. 4cyl, lightweight, high revving, NA, 18/24mpg! That's awful for a 4 cyl! My 03 Cobra with a supercharged V8 making 450hp to the wheels gets that mileage! The best route they could go would be to put in a motor similar to the Cobalt SS's LNF turbo engine.

lol how can you trash the fc20 since it was the most powerful NA engine until Ferrari released the 458 Italia just THIS year so from 1999 until 2010 theis engine was the best NA engine in the world

Yes it doesn't get as good MPG as the other 4s but how can you even compare a high output highly developed and tuned 4 to a regular eco box 4.


I have a hard time believing in the 24mpg since my friends dad owns a Shebly GT500 and those things deff don't get good MPG. I do know the Vettes get in the 20s tho.

@OP
The S2k makes it power due to the stroke and compression but because of how it was design it doesnt take well to boost without being overhauled 1st

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

lol how can you trash the fc20 since it was the most powerful NA engine until Ferrari released the 458 Italia just THIS year so from 1999 until 2010 theis engine was the best NA engine in the world

Yes it doesn't get as good MPG as the other 4s but how can you even compare a high output highly developed and tuned 4 to a regular eco box 4.


I have a hard time believing in the 24mpg since my friends dad owns a Shebly GT500 and those things deff don't get good MPG. I do know the Vettes get in the 20s tho.

@OP
The S2k makes it power due to the stroke and compression but because of how it was design it doesnt take well to boost without being overhauled 1st

Some of the Muscle cars with really tall gearing tend to get "decent" highway MPG. The Corvette has really long gearing too.

The S2000 is capable of plenty of power on the stock block especially with race fuel or alcohol. Although for pump gas it's probably safer to lower the compression . I've heard of 400WHP S2000s on pump gas.

[NESW20]

Originally Posted by DrunkenMime

I call BS on the idea that an 03 COBRA gets 24mpg!! lmfao!! I have a 2007 Toyota Sequoia and it averages 13.9mpg hwy and city....no way in hell a supercharged 450hp muscle car beats that by 10mpg...

i believe it, actually. as has been mentioned, taller gearing helps a ton with that. my 2006 Tacoma will average 19mpg+ on a good day, and it's WAY less aerodynamic than a mustang.

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

lol how can you trash the fc20 since it was the most powerful NA engine until Ferrari released the 458 Italia just THIS year so from 1999 until 2010 theis engine was the best NA engine in the world

Yes it doesn't get as good MPG as the other 4s but how can you even compare a high output highly developed and tuned 4 to a regular eco box 4.


I have a hard time believing in the 24mpg since my friends dad owns a Shebly GT500 and those things deff don't get good MPG. I do know the Vettes get in the 20s tho.

@OP
The S2k makes it power due to the stroke and compression but because of how it was design it doesnt take well to boost without being overhauled 1st

that's not what i've seen. i've witnessed numerous turbo/sc S2000s that are on stock blocks and make pretty good power with low boost levels.

back on topic: there is really no reason why they couldn't design the flat 4 that's going into the FT86 to behave like the K20Z3 or even the F20C (although i think the former is plenty good enough). there's not some magical wall that designers hit when cylinder layout is changed. it's all about having a good head, intake, and exhaust designs.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

lol how can you trash the fc20 since it was the most powerful NA engine until Ferrari released the 458 Italia just THIS year so from 1999 until 2010 theis engine was the best NA engine in the world

Right.

[NESW20]

oh, and the S2000 had the highest specific power output, but was not the most powerful n/a engine. and it's arguable about which engine was the best in the world. just saying... haha

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Right.

Sorry I missed a part there

Most powerful NA engine HP/L

Originally Posted by NESW20

i believe it, actually. as has been mentioned, taller gearing helps a ton with that. my 2006 Tacoma will average 19mpg+ on a good day, and it's WAY less aerodynamic than a mustang.



that's not what i've seen. i've witnessed numerous turbo/sc S2000s that are on stock blocks and make pretty good power with low boost levels.

back on topic: there is really no reason why they couldn't design the flat 4 that's going into the FT86 to behave like the K20Z3 or even the F20C (although i think the former is plenty good enough). there's not some magical wall that designers hit when cylinder layout is changed. it's all about having a good head, intake, and exhaust designs.

SC s2000 I have seen but for turbos I have seen a couple but them were both built and talkin to the owners is how I learned the block isnt good to turbo stock but maybe that was just them.

I wouldn't want a engine like the k20z3, I mean its the black sheep of the K series no one really wants this engine in comparison to say a K20A.

[chulooz]

"Under the hood of the Caterham is Ford’s Duratec 2.0-liter inline-4, tuned to produce a whopping 263 naturally aspirated bhp at 8500 rpm and 177 lb.-ft. of torque at 7200."

THAT'S a powerful N/A!

[NESW20]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

I wouldn't want a engine like the k20z3, I mean its the black sheep of the K series no one really wants this engine in comparison to say a K20A.

what makes you say the k20z3 is the black sheep of the K series? it does fabulous work in the new Civic Si. it responds extremely well to mods, has usable torque throughout the rev range, and is fairly efficient. i do believe the A makes more power stock, but i wouldn't say the z3 is bad in any way, really.

have you driven many cars with the K20Z3? it's a very fun engine.

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

@OP
The S2k makes it power due to the stroke and compression but because of how it was design it doesnt take well to boost without being overhauled 1st

wrong. the s2k is an awesome car to boost. it already has forged internals. head over to s2ki.com and see what they've been doing with boosted s2ks.

[4agze]

Originally Posted by SOB

I'd much prefer a forced induction motor then some NA high revving one. Take a look at the Honda S2000 for an example. 4cyl, lightweight, high revving, NA, 18/24mpg! That's awful for a 4 cyl! My 03 Cobra with a supercharged V8 making 450hp to the wheels gets that mileage! The best route they could go would be to put in a motor similar to the Cobalt SS's LNF turbo engine.

Again your on a wrong forum man, you keep compairing american crap car to a global production engine, F20 or F22 are one of the best FR engines, no one outside the USA says cobalt SS & neon Srt are good cars. Why not stick on what you know muscle cars no shame on that, going 1/4 mile is good for you or maybe just keep going left.

[Mouse]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

Sorry I missed a part there

Most powerful NA engine HP/L



SC s2000 I have seen but for turbos I have seen a couple but them were both built and talkin to the owners is how I learned the block isnt good to turbo stock but maybe that was just them.

I wouldn't want a engine like the k20z3, I mean its the black sheep of the K series no one really wants this engine in comparison to say a K20A.

Most powerful NA piston engine HP/L.

[EJ20]

I think its possible to hit +200hp on the boxer engine! I drove one friend 05 impreza rx with EJ204 engine (its a detuned version of the JDM EJ204) and it was making 160hp and redlined at 7900 rpm! it was awesome above 5000 rpm and feels kinda fast for a heavy car!
on the other hand the same MY but the JDM one was makeing 190hp and was also redlined to 7900 rpm!

Now, its been about 6 to 7 years for that engine and technology changed, so I guess with the move advanced avcs & DI , I can see +200hp on the same based engine?
the EJ204 CR was around 11:1 as I rememmber
hell if toyota make the new boxer cr into 12:1 the I guess 220~240 on 2.0L na engine is so easy! but since this is a mass production engine/car I guess we will have a detuned version for better fuel econ?

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Exage

My post on the other thread

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...page=5&p=32764

Post on engine tech thread

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...page=6&p=32841

Critical parts of the engine must be re-designed for high-rpm bhp applications. The FB20 and FB25 engines wouldn't be able to withstand the high rpm wear. The FB25 would reach 200bhp with minor upgrades like the D-4S injection however it would not rev out like you would expect. I think they are sticking with a 2.0L engine for the launch in all markets so I'm expecting a slightly redesigned naturally aspirated FB based engine for this car.

couldn't they just add longer rods than changing the whole borexstroke ratio? the F22C is also undersquare, but it feels great revving to 8000. 87x90.7 borexstroke with a 1.65 rod/stroke ratio.

we already know the FT86 is gonna have D-4S, so since it's gonna have a different head already the combustion chamber design will surely be different as well. i really hope they do a good job with this motor!

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by chulooz

"Under the hood of the Caterham is Ford’s Duratec 2.0-liter inline-4, tuned to produce a whopping 263 naturally aspirated bhp at 8500 rpm and 177 lb.-ft. of torque at 7200."

THAT'S a powerful N/A!

Yes but that a tuned extremely low volume track car

The Ford Duratec 2.0 made 143Hp in regular form.

Your point is moot. There is no comparing a tuned engine to a stock engine. If you want to make that agurement there are many tuned s2k making 300+HP NA

Originally Posted by NESW20

what makes you say the k20z3 is the black sheep of the K series? it does fabulous work in the new Civic Si. it responds extremely well to mods, has usable torque throughout the rev range, and is fairly efficient. i do believe the A makes more power stock, but i wouldn't say the z3 is bad in any way, really.

have you driven many cars with the K20Z3? it's a very fun engine.

I have driven a CSX type R as well as the new civic Si and this engine does nothing for me tho that could be cause I've driven a K20A RSX type S and that is a much much much better engine.

My bad I shouldnt say its the blacksheep of K engines but I deff think its the worst out of the high preformance Ks (K20A, K20Z1, K20Z4 etc) hell even the older K20A2 I thought had a better feel to it than the K20Z3. Just my personally opinion however tho the K20A is easily the best in my mind.

Originally Posted by Mouse

Most powerful NA piston engine HP/L.

Yes yes rotary engines