11-21-2019, 01:25 AM | #29 | |
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2. Yes, it is heavy. Part of that is because cutting an engine in half requires the edition of some extra material and parts. There are two heads, but there isn't twice or a doubling of the heads in terms of weight. There is a trade off in creating a low and compact engine, but good to know I was correct, that there isn't an 80lb savings. I'm sure there would also be a small to significant handling penalty by placing an equivalent of three to four cylinders further forward and raising the COG of the engine. Depending on the racecar application, this could be detrimental to handling.
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11-21-2019, 10:57 AM | #30 |
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That 192 pound weight is for the automatic; if a manual were used as is available in different BMW platforms, I'm guessing that would be a lot closer to the claimed 80 pound savings. Certainly lighter overall than the current FA20/trans package.
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11-21-2019, 12:56 PM | #31 | |
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https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/2-se...fications.html
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11-21-2019, 03:07 PM | #32 | |
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Not that it affects me...this certainly isn't a swap I'd ever consider.
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11-21-2019, 03:23 PM | #33 |
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Well, the reason the Supra came with a ZF8 verses a DCT is weight they said, so maybe the ZF8 is light for what it offers, and it is good to remember that our Asain manual transmission is glass compared to the manual in a M240i. The torque is about 2.5 times the levels of the twins, so the transmission would be much beefier, as well as, the clutch assembly. Add the weight of a clutch slave cylinder and extra foot pedal assembly, and I could imagine the manual being heavier than the ZF8.
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11-21-2019, 03:47 PM | #34 |
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11-21-2019, 03:48 PM | #35 | |
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I have no doubt that either manual for the B58 is heavier than our Aisin. Likewise, I'd expect a DCT and clutch setup is also going to be much heavier than a traditional manual with foot clutch (assuming they're for the same motor) simply due to the additional componentry required, so I guess I could buy the ZF being lighter than the DCT. I still have a very hard time believing a conventional manual transmission for the B58 in an F20/22/30 weighs 225+ lbs (192 for 8HP, plus 35 difference). A T56 barely weighs half that and certainly has more capacity than either GS6xxx manuals (Getrag or ZF) in the BMW...
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11-21-2019, 04:34 PM | #36 | ||
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11-22-2019, 12:42 PM | #37 |
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Weird. Score another one for American driveline engineering, I guess.
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11-23-2019, 03:53 PM | #38 | |
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T56's aren't known for shifting nicely...
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11-23-2019, 05:00 PM | #39 |
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11-23-2019, 08:00 PM | #40 |
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T56 and T56 Magnum are different products from different product lines that use the same name for marketing. Borg Warner designed the original T56 and sold the T line to Tremec. Tremec has engineering offices in Michigan, so American designed, but they are built in Mexico and are a subsidiary of a Mexican corporate group.
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11-23-2019, 08:31 PM | #41 | |
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I've been to Tremec's office in Michigan and their engineering/manufacturing facility in Queratero (was very impressed with them!) They built a transmission for an electric motorscooter/cycle I worked on (I laid out the chassis geometry and did design and analysis of all the primary structures including the trans which was housed within our rear wheel) Externally the T56 and T56 Magnum look very similar, but yeah, the internals very different and not at all interchangeable. I had a T56 in my LS3 RX-7, which was very chunktastic and annoying to operate. NO fun. Eventually it began to pop out of 3rd so I got a new T56 Magnum for it. DAMN, what a MASSIVE difference... The Magnum was super smooth and way more *snick-snick* in operation. Made the car *fun* to drive |
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11-25-2019, 11:36 AM | #42 |
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I'm referring to the Tremec offering at this point...their whole product line is light years better than the original offerings from B-W...I put a Tremec T5Z in my friend's Falcon wagon, and it's the nicest shifting manual I think I've EVER used...
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