BMW B58
 

With the release of the Supra I figured I'd look into how much a B58 engine runs to, and it's not as much as I'd expected (UK). I know it's not a large or heavy lump so may make a good swap candidate. Very little info on what ECUs will run one, although I expect a Motec would, and then would need a strong gearbox. I'm assuming there might be a suitable box from a M140/240 that would fit without a crazy amount of work.

Tried looking on here but doesn't seem to have been mentioned this far, which is surprising.

Thoughts?

First thought is why? I’m just trying to figure out what benefit there would be over a 2J, LS or UZ engine? If it’s just to be the first person to do it then sure I guess it would be cool.

I created a thread on the S65. Similar idea.

The only advantages I see over a 2JZ are the following: the engine and transmission are one unit so there isn’t a need for an adapter kit for something like a CD009; the engine might be lighter and is for sure lower and shorter; there is no need to upgrade to a single turbo like it is for the 2jz; and the intake manifold could work without a need for modification or a drive by wire conversion. Those costs could add up. I don’t know what a used engine and tranny go for but I doubt it is too expensive compared to a LS and T56.

The big thing is Pure Automotive isn’t likely going to do a Motec setup for canbus integration or anyone else, so this would only be for a racecar situation because I doubt it would be a good daily without full integration.

2JZ are not cheap here in the UK, certainly not as cheap as the B58, which comes as a surprise. The fact the B58 makes good power and is modern so should be quite a decent engine to run. Certainly is decent fun in the M240 so a lighter more able chassis seems an obvious choice. I quite like the i6 idea and bar the 2JZ and also expensive RB25/26 the options are limited.

UZ is one that I've been tempted by but we don't get many V8 Toyotas/Lexus here so again, not that cheap and need work to make similar power. LS just isn't an option here, we don't get any of the models that use them so you either have to get one imported or from an imported car, so guess what, they aren't cheap.

I dig it, the fact is the 2JZ is coming up on 30 years old and keeping that lump alive and running is a cottage industry that won't last forever. If I6s are your thing a B58 is a long term contender as long as you don't need crazy power right now, it'll be interesting to see how much abuse the B58 block can take as Papadakis gives it a shot.

As above, it's a racecar swap right now not a street car one without a lot of effort and or money.

The reality is there is little money to save over this swap and just buying a Supra, nor is there any benefit I can see unless someone just needs a 2+2. In the end, the Supra is the better car in every way.

With that kind of logic why ever bother going into this section?

I think it could be a real fun swap. Most of it will be custom, so that is where the cost is going to be. I also am not sure how well any of the bmw auto transmission will fit, they seem to be quite large and will require more work to fit in the trans tunnel. Mount a manual may be an option, but more work again.

I am quite interested in the B58 as a lightweight all aluminum "2jz replacement".

No reason it has to be a racecar only option. Motec can control the factory canbus, just requires you to make your own harness and such. Pure's option is good because most of the hard work is done for you already, but no reason you have to stick to only their packages to do swaps.

With a b58 being about 80lbs lighter than the stock engine, you’d be looking at a supra powered 86 that weighs ~600lbs less than a supra. Probably
More like 500lbs due to custom fab stuff, but still.

Because swaps are often about bettering one’s position. Some could buy a Supra or LS300/IS300/GS300 if they want a 2JZ easier, but then they have an old car or an overpriced Supra If someone wants an LS then they have to buy a boat of a Camaro or drop some coin on a Corvette. As a racecar, this swap makes sense, but not as a full canbus daily; by the end of the swap, someone would likely drop Supra money into a car with less quality, less stiffness with weaker and cheaper components, etc. That just seems silly, but if someone wants to burn cash on a project then more power to them.

It requires a custom harness, custom Motec ECU and custom tune. That could run $10k right there. For a turn key car with OEM driveability will easily cross $20k. Add a new car to that and you have the price of a new Supra. The weight difference between the 86 and Supra will approximate with the swap and the small difference in weight will be due to a huge diffErence in quality and expendables.

80lbs lighter for an engine with two extra cylinders and a turbo system? Is the transmission lighter? Is the cooling system not getting upgraded? Is the active diff going into the swap? What about the larger brakes? What about the adaptive suspension? What about the thicker components? What about the stiffer chassis? What about the quality? Is this going to be a track/racecar or just a daily? Rims and tires getting upgraded too?

I think you are hoping to get something for free.

Didn't you bring up the S65 V8 swap not too long ago?

I could see it easily being over $20k to get the swap going. I have almost $20k in just my engine and transmission alone on my LS swap and money keeps adding up because I have to rebuild the engine again.

If the swap isn't for you, no need to continue putting others down for going for it, or talking it through. You sound exactly like the people that tell me I was stupid for swapping my car and not buying a corvette.

With the B58 being about $1500 more than a 2JZ and fully aluminum making close to 700whp with bolt on upgrades, I don't see why it isn't a good swap. Canbus is just a part of these swaps, pay to play unfortunately. There are a few cheaper options popping up now that offer canbus support that could provide a cheaper swap option as well.

The other 6 cyl option I was looking at is the new v6 ecotech/LV3. LT based v6 making 285hp and 305tq N/A. More if you run it on e85. Lightweight All Aluminum V6 that works with a lot of the current LS/LT V8 stuff. Would be a killer swap

Yep I did like I mentioned above.

I wasn’t putting anyone down. I was talking it through. Isn’t that what people do when they talk it through—weigh the pros and cons? I mentioned some pros, but I consider the cons would outweigh the pros. It is information to consider. That’s all.

The turbo bolts directly to the head due to the headifold design, so that should add minimal weight, maybe 20lbs. Adaptive suspension isn’t necessary or part of an engine swap so I don’t see why that matters (although a Tein kit is like 5lbs). BBKs are lighter than stock, and aluminum chassis stiffening is a matter of tens of pounds, not hundreds. Even being conservative you’re looking at 400-500lbs lighter of car, assuming you don’t strip weight elsewhere (battery, seats, etc).

You’re not getting something for free, you’re building a purpose built racecar or “racecar” or hotrod or drift missile or whatever you want to call it, instead of a pseudo-luxury sportscoupe. The “cost” is in that you’ll have a loud, rarely, harsh racecar instead of a car you can drive to work every day.

Because I like my eyes. I have also paid off the 86 a long time ago and don't want to drop £50k on a car that I hate the look of..... I'd rather buy an A110 but I'm told by SWMBO that I need more than 2 seats [sigh].
M140/240 comes in manual here. Probably not as good as the OEM in terms of feel but it's OK and obviously designed for the torque. Probably similar in length on those platforms too. Would need a little research.

Decent V6 options also limited here, the only viable one I can think of would be a VQ35/37 but I'm not sure that would be much cheaper.