No new BRZ/86 announcement from Tokyo?

[LSK]

I guess it wasn't ready. Or they're waiting for SEMA.





Thoughts?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LSK

I guess it wasn't ready. Or they're waiting for SEMA.





Thoughts?

Be another year at least. The clickbaits guessed wrong. Again.
SEMA is an aftermarket and specialty products show so don't expect to see manufacturers concepts released there.

[LSK]

i figured it seemed a little soon after seeing those test mule spy shots.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LSK

i figured it seemed a little soon after seeing those test mule spy shots.

If they were even test mule spy shots for a new gen. Could have been simply trying some new aero for a special edition. That of course would not get them as many clicks so they had to make something up that would grab attention.

[Jdmuscle]

I see the following timeline even if this happens..

2020: possibly a prototype debut (more than likely it’ll be in 2021)
2022: second almost production ready prototype
2023: production debut with an on sale date late 2023 or early 2024

This is if economy doesn’t take a down turn and everything stays normal. To be honest I still don’t see this becoming a reality although we have some confirmations of a new model in the works.

[Opie]

New Crosstrek/Impreza announced 3/2017 went on sale 9/2017
New Ascent announced 11/2017 went on sale 10/2018
New Forester announced 3/2018 went on sale 11/2018
New Outback/Legacy announced 4/2019 went on sale 10/2019
New WRX/STI ?
New Hybrid ?
New BRZ ?

I would expect the WRX/STI announcement by March/April 2020 along with the Hybrid...BRZ will be after that, probably March/April 2021

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Jdmuscle

2023: production debut with an on sale date late 2023 or early 2024

Current production model will be 11.5 years old at that point. I guess that makes sense for limited production, but man does time fly, and no torque dip!

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Current production model will be 11.5 years old at that point. I guess that makes sense for limited production, but man does time fly, and no torque dip!

And my nearly six year old car still looks current.

That's the problem when you create a winner. How do you change a good thing without fucking it up?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

And my nearly six year old car still looks current.

That's the problem when you create a winner. How do you change a good thing without fucking it up?

Absolutely.

[ka-titties]

I'd be surprised if a new BRZ/86 ever happens, let alone in the next 3-4 years. The current one didn't drum up the necessary sales to warrant a new one. Plus with the impending global economic downturn, the chances turn to almost zero.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by ka-titties

I'd be surprised if a new BRZ/86 ever happens, let alone in the next 3-4 years. The current one didn't drum up the necessary sales to warrant a new one. Plus with the impending global economic downturn, the chances turn to almost zero.

Where are people getting this? Toyota and Subaru have already officially announced they are developing the next gen twin. It’s in their forward corporate plan. Yes, there is always the possibility of the program being cancelled, but if you are betting with your own money, place it on the official manufacturer announcements rather than guesswork on forums.

I also don’t understand the claims that the twins are a sales failure. They have sold a lot of them, and certainly more than other cars like the 370Z. In fact, at least in Australia, they have sold about ten times more twins than Celicas and Supras combined, from what I’ve read. The twins provide Toyota in particular with a unique product at the price point, which has a reverse halo effect on their cooking models (obviously the new Supra provides a halo at the other end). I will be surprised and obviously disappointed if the new twins are cancelled.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by ka-titties

I'd be surprised if a new BRZ/86 ever happens, let alone in the next 3-4 years. The current one didn't drum up the necessary sales to warrant a new one. Plus with the impending global economic downturn, the chances turn to almost zero.

um, in 3 years they sold as many FRS/86/BRZs worldwide as Honda did with the S2000 over 10 years...the twins sold better than most if not all of Toyota's previous sports cars..and historically Toyota rarely discontinues a model after just 1 generation. Plus, talk about backlash after the countless times Toyota folks have mentioned having a dedicated 3 sports car lineup.

[strat61caster]

Was never going to happen this year, they're milking the mk1 for at least 9 years if not 10, I bet the Zupra development took longer than they wanted and we'll be waiting 2 years for a late 2021 debut and the car will hit showrooms in early 2022. I could be wrong though and they might have had Subaru re-working the car for a 2020/21 debut/release, or they push it another year (maybe Nissan drops a bomb next year with a good 370Z replacement? Hyundai replaces the Genesis with something competent?) Only a few hundred people know for sure and they're paid well enough not to leak it.

+1 on the 86 meeting sales expectations, it's the best selling Japanese RWD sporty car since the NB Miata. It's even keeping pace with the ND which is mighty impressive despite being a car that's 5 years older with much less advanced engineering put into it.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Jdmuscle

I see the following timeline even if this happens..

2020: possibly a prototype debut (more than likely it’ll be in 2021)
2022: second almost production ready prototype
2023: production debut with an on sale date late 2023 or early 2024

This is if economy doesn’t take a down turn and everything stays normal. To be honest I still don’t see this becoming a reality although we have some confirmations of a new model in the works.

Unfortunately, I think you're absolutely right on the timing of a new BRZ/86. The simple reason is, it's just not that important of a car to Toyota.

Toyota is a gigantic, sclerotic behemoth of a company. Despite being the largest car company on Earth, they're very conservative and cautious. They're chasing The Big Sales. Camrys. SUVs. Cars that sell in volumes of hundreds of thousands per year. They sell about 2% as many 86's as they do Camrys. Think about that. Two percent. Annual 86 revenues for them equal about a week of Camry sales.

You have to give them credit for being interested enough in niches to even make a sports car at all, let alone two (BRZ/86 and the Supra). But it's just not a high priority for them.

Even though the BRZ/86 is really a Subaru creation, Toyota is calling the shots. They're 10 times bigger than Subaru. They put up half the money for the project. They recently announced increasing their ownership stake in Subaru. To give credit where credit is due again, the whole BRZ/86 thing may not have even happened without Toyota's money. As much as I and all of us love Subaru, they might not have been able to dedicate the resources to creating the BRZ on their own.

But when you dance with an 800 lb gorilla, you're finished dancing when the gorilla is.

In general, as I've said before, the absolute rules about new cars are:

1) it always takes longer than you think,
2) it's never quite as good as you hoped, and
3) even with Japanese cars, do you really want to buy the first model year?

I think we should be happy that they've announced that there will be a new BRZ/86. Toyota could have just as easily canned it now that they have another 'halo' sports car (albeit one that's just a BMW Z4 hardtop). Unless something untoward happens, like a prolonged global recession, the car will happen. Just not that quickly.

In the meantime, let's celebrate the current BRZ for what it is. A rare offering in the car world, a simple, analog-feeling, lightweight sports car, in the spirit of the pure sports cars of the 'good old days' some of us grew up driving and that made us fall in love with cars. Opel GT. MBG. Triumph TR6 and Spitfire. Sunbeam. Fiat 124 and even 850. Karmann-Ghia. Alfa. Austin-Healy. Jensen-Healy... and others long gone.

I wanted a modern equivalent to one of those, and the only options available today are the BRZ and Miata. But the BRZ has power, speed, safety, and comfort unimaginable to drivers of those 60's/70's cars. Plus it's just gorgeous. The next iteration will be an incremental advance on the current car, not a ground-breaking revolution. It'll have a little more power, more angular creased styling, and that's probably about it.

So let's enjoy the current car, which I think is still relevant and just as much fun today as when it was introduced in 2013 (and world's better than the 1970 and 1972 Opel GT's I used to drive back in the 70's, and which this car reminds me of). The new BRZ will arrive at some point. If you find it irresistible, buy it. Until then, this one is plenty fun for me.