Random Thoughts - Part Deux [NO POLITICS]

[NoHaveMSG]

I am filing EPA and CARB certs now. And of course CARB changed a standard that greatly complicates things.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Yea, I get that, but the emissions standard seems like it should be controlled at a higher level.



Also, the CA standards really only apply to the first 7,500 miles of a new car's life. After that, any car can be registered in CA (at least as I understand it). If they were really serious about it, they would restrict the registration of all cars to the stricter standard.

Living in a world where the ignorant masses agree making the rules for everyone else, I'm all for states rights. California (and Connecticut) are great examples. In CT we have Hartford, New Haven, Bridgeport voting in higher spending and taxation for everyone else and we can't stop it. By land area CT is actually a red state. But the population is all in like 3 major cities. Broke cities. They tried to make every town pay a flat property tax on cars so the towns who actually live on a good budget could subsidize the cities who over spend and can't afford anything. It's crazy. CT was slowly invaded by the poor. I hope the old republic holds as long as it can but communism is coming, eventually. LOL sorry if that got political I'll self ban myself for 23 minutes.

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[echo419]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Yea, I get that, but the emissions standard seems like it should be controlled at a higher level.

Also, the CA standards really only apply to the first 7,500 miles of a new car's life. After that, any car can be registered in CA (at least as I understand it). If they were really serious about it, they would restrict the registration of all cars to the stricter standard.

so you'd either be defacto requiring all manufacturers to keep to the Cali standard thus the law one state making the law for the entire country or they produce a different car for new sales in Cali and seriously discourage people from buying new cars in Cali.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

In the States it goes by where the car registered what laws it follows (for better or for worse). For example a Florida registered car could have limo tints all around just about and legally drive into Connecticut. Guaranteed they will pulled over because CT cops hate not being able to see inside of a car but they can't really ticket them. CT registered car they would give them a 20 days notice for inspection if they didn't make them rip off right there on the side of the road or get towed. Same is true for exhaust/emissions all depends on the state. CT they do a visual outside check for a cat and check the OBD-II at like 3k rpms for no CELs (and been though the factory determined cycle since last clear) that's it. No more sniffers because it too easy to just run dry gas and it cost too much money. We are starting to charge gas guzzler and/or luxury taxes on new vehicles though.

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Connecticut has been dying a slow death regardless of governing parties. Dont blame the failures of your party of choice on 3 cities

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by echo419

so you'd either be defacto requiring all manufacturers to keep to the Cali standard thus the law one state making the law for the entire country or they produce a different car for new sales in Cali and seriously discourage people from buying new cars in Cali.

The standards are actually not that much different, they are pretty much within the tolerance of each other. ARB and EPA have their own certification and they don't recognize each others standard.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Connecticut has been dying a slow death regardless of governing parties. Dont blame the failures of your party of choice on 3 cities

I'm an independent actually, so not my party either way. Fiscally I am definitely conservative though. The problem is spending though and it isn't the far left trying to slow it down for sure. Anyway I didn't want to get too political just making the point that standardization isn't always the best idea when the people who don't even drive cars would probably have the majority vote...

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

The standards are actually not that much different, they are pretty much within the tolerance of each other. ARB and EPA have their own certification and they don't recognize each others standard.

Many of the standards requirements for 2025 are global and not just the US or even California. The European standards are already far greater than even California so the manufacturers are going to have to meet them anyway. Not sure what value pushing them out a year has beyond political posturing anyway.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Many of the standards requirements for 2025 are global and not just the US or even California. The European standards are already far greater than even California so the manufacturers are going to have to meet them anyway. Not sure what value pushing them out a year has beyond political posturing anyway.

I am not surprised, I haven't bothered too much with looking at the global standards. I just think it is ridiculous we have two regulatory bodies with almost identical standards that don't recognize each other certification in the same country. If ARB chooses not to recognize Euro-6 certification that's one thing. But not recognize EPA

[IceFyre13th]

so...inhale....hows the artificial power supply loss doing to prevent forest fires while saving the spotted owl in the redwood forest while simultaneously reducing your water shortage by painting your lawn green ....inhale.... going for you.


Yeah, I already own ocean side property!!!!!

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

They make crate electric motors now. You can throw it in any old frame you want (with a little welding)..

You could always buy a motor. You're much better off getting a used crashed EV and transferring components.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Made me curious since there are about 6 stations within about 10 minutes of work. Looks like most cost around $1.50 to $2 per hour. Not sure if there are hidden charges or how long it takes to "fill up" but don't see how it would cost me $38 to charge.

I paid more because I wanted to use the app that would give me updates on charge and such. I could have swiped a credit card, I guess.

Originally Posted by echo419

I'm sure they'll manage just fine without you.

given the way California has managed to increase it's homeless population, tax it's citizens into being forced to leave and practically encourage massive forest fires among a pile of other things it's probably a safe bet that taking the opposite side to their almost nonstop failed policies is a good idea.

I've bought Chevy, Dodge, Ram, Fiat, Subaru, Toyota, Jaguar, and BMW new. I don't think any of them would want to lose my business. I'm a fucking gold mine to these companies.

Your statements about California are cluelessly oversimplified. Shame on you. There are a lot of homeless people in California. This has to do with countless reasons, including housing costs, climate, criminalization, and available public support. Forcing people to leave? Well, the high cost of living can do that. Encouraging forest fires? How exactly? Climate change is California's fault? By having power lines? People like to blame politicians, but there are a million issues, from NIMBYism to capitalism to greedy human nature. Your simple take is simple.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Is your complaint that they agreed with Trump, or that they don't want to conform to the more restrictive CA standards, or both?

I've never really delved into the details but I always thought it was odd that CA was allowed to do this anyway since its basically interstate commerce.

To me, in the end, if the manufacturers decided they didn't want to deal with the more restrictive standards, they would not sell cars in CA. In the end, if they all banded together they would have the power by just selling "49 state" cars. (Yea, I know its not that simple)

The history is that California had a lot of people and therefore a lot of pollution, so California regulated when the rest of the country did not. Then the feds came in, full of ignorance about California's needs, and made a deal where California could keep regulating its own air. The needs of Wisconsin have little to do with the needs of California.

There were 49 and 50 state cars. There may still be some. Mostly, California is the biggest market for cars in the country. Its standards are in line with Europe and other places that have a clue about reality and climate change. These listed car companies are not only anti-science and anti-humanity, they're just stupid. The short term advantages are tiny and the long term disadvantages are massive.

Trump is just the American tip of the self-annihilation spear.

Originally Posted by cjd

Well shit. No good cars left. If Tesla weren't fugly, maybe.

They are fugly. Jaguar I-Pace is nice. New mini EV. Fiat 500e.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Completely get that. I think if the electrification of the fleet hits critical mass I suspect charging away from home will be more expensive than gas now, just because the utilization of those stations won't be as high. If I drove an EV, there would probably be less than a a couple of dozen times a year I would need to charge away from home.

Just thought it was interesting to compare your "on the road" charging to what an ICE would cost in the same situation.

It's not good for EVs, but there's little competition. Electrify America has a monopoly. Then the Tesla people are charging for cheap or free. So if you wanna charge on long trips, get a Tesla.

Originally Posted by IceFyre13th

so...inhale....hows the artificial power supply loss doing to prevent forest fires while saving the spotted owl in the redwood forest while simultaneously reducing your water shortage by painting your lawn green ....inhale.... going for you.

Yeah, I already own ocean side property!!!!!

Ocean front property will more and more be tidal lands. Enjoy it while it lasts. Don't build an expensive home.

All you said was bullshit.

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Living in a world where the ignorant masses agree making the rules for everyone else, I'm all for states rights. California (and Connecticut) are great examples. In CT we have Hartford, New Haven, Bridgeport voting in higher spending and taxation for everyone else and we can't stop it. By land area CT is actually a red state. But the population is all in like 3 major cities. Broke cities. They tried to make every town pay a flat property tax on cars so the towns who actually live on a good budget could subsidize the cities who over spend and can't afford anything. It's crazy. CT was slowly invaded by the poor. I hope the old republic holds as long as it can but communism is coming, eventually. LOL sorry if that got political I'll self ban myself for 23 minutes.

Historically, states rights was all about having slaves. CT is not being invaded by the poor. More people are getting poor because the system is broken. Want statistics? Communism may or may not be coming, but a revolution might be. If Trump doesn't declare martial law, Sanders might.

Originally Posted by echo419

so you'd either be defacto requiring all manufacturers to keep to the Cali standard thus the law one state making the law for the entire country or they produce a different car for new sales in Cali and seriously discourage people from buying new cars in Cali.

People seem pretty happy buying cars designed for California. The CARB states are Arizona, California, Connecticut, Florida, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Mexico, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington. If you wanna make a car for that segment of the population and another for the rest, go ahead, but you're an idiot for doing so. That's most of the strongest markets.

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Connecticut has been dying a slow death regardless of governing parties. Dont blame the failures of your party of choice on 3 cities

This is true everywhere. Both parties have more than their share of idiots in command.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

The standards are actually not that much different, they are pretty much within the tolerance of each other. ARB and EPA have their own certification and they don't recognize each others standard.

Yeah, but if I can save $5 per car, screw my grandkids.

Originally Posted by p1l0t

I'm an independent actually, so not my party either way. Fiscally I am definitely conservative though. The problem is spending though and it isn't the far left trying to slow it down for sure. Anyway I didn't want to get too political just making the point that standardization isn't always the best idea when the people who don't even drive cars would probably have the majority vote...

People say the left wants to spend, but so does the right. All that conservative financial bullshit went out the window the day they came into office. The current regime has rung up the biggest budget deficit in history, and that's during good times. If we hit bad times with this deficit, we're totally screwed.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Many of the standards requirements for 2025 are global and not just the US or even California. The European standards are already far greater than even California so the manufacturers are going to have to meet them anyway. Not sure what value pushing them out a year has beyond political posturing anyway.

As a Californian, I am so pissed that plug-in hybrids are a big thing. I don't want them, but they're made to meet EU in-city EV demands. I want more pure EVs, but no... EU regulations are fucking over my choices. 8, 12, 22 miles of range? DAMNIT!

/s

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

DAMNIT!

/s

DAMNED, EAGLE5, you outdid your old self on that post -


humfrz

[echo419]

edit: screw it. totally pointless.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

The history is that California had a lot of people and therefore a lot of pollution, so California regulated when the rest of the country did not. Then the feds came in, full of ignorance about California's needs, and made a deal where California could keep regulating its own air. The needs of Wisconsin have little to do with the needs of California.

Makes sense. I personally don't have an issue with the higher CA standards, I just think there should only be one. Practically, there is only one. The car companies aren't going to build two different cars for the US unless the delta in price between the 49 model and CA model is financially huge.

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

It's not good for EVs, but there's little competition. Electrify America has a monopoly. Then the Tesla people are charging for cheap or free. So if you wanna charge on long trips, get a Tesla.

I would rather have to beg strangers to let me plug in my car at their house then buy a Tesla. Beyond agreeing on the fugly part, there are other design elements and business practices I don't care for with the company, using the public roads as their beta playground being top of the list.

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

I don't want them, but they're made to meet EU in-city EV demands. I want more pure EVs, but no... EU regulations are fucking over my choices. 8, 12, 22 miles of range? DAMNIT!

I'm with you on this. I'll consider an EV when there is price and range equivalency with ICE, and the full charge times on the road are under 30 minutes, preferably 80% in under 15. No, I don't want much.

[echo419]

odds are pretty good that most people would be using coal powered electricity to charge their EV. #NotGreenAfterAll