Car & Driver Mag: Supra vs 86 Center of Gravity

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by HachiRokuX

I don't really get all the negativity around the Supra..it looks kinda 2000GT-ish from certain angles and has really good HP/TQ. Just gotta wait 3-5 years and see if it will be reliable...

No Manuél.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

The old Supra is not valuable. It was a $50K car then. Now you can buy them for $30K, at most $50K for a particularly clean example. After inflation and carrying costs, keeping its value is a loss.

Plus there should be a penalty assumed just for having the poor taste to keep something that ugly around for that long.

Can you please link me to a manual twin turbo mkIV for 30k? I'll buy it right now.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Apologies for voicing my opinion about a new car on a car forum, or is it just my negative views about a car you like.

touche, got no problems with opinions. But this is about the most nitpicked car I've seen in a while and I could go to any random topic about it today on a forum or ig or youtube and 2 comments in -- "ITS A BMW". I think most serious people who are interested in this won't really care about CG. It's just another topic to bash about.

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Do I wish it was a Toyota/Lexus build, hell yeah, same as I wish the 86 was a Toyota build, with a in-line 4 pot.

Toyota and Subaru collaborating to make a cheap sports car, yeah, whilst I'm not happy I can deal with that, Toyota and BMW collaborating to make a Zupra, nope.

Plus, more fake vents than a Honda, I would hate looking at them knowing that they are just form over function.

On the other hand, other people........well, you get the picture.

Don't know how Toyota would make a high revving 4 cylinder without having someone to collaborate with, correct me but weren't most of Toyota's high revving 4 cylinders built with a Yamaha design?
I have no problem with the Subaru collaboration, it was more of a true collab than the Supra. My car has been very reliable and plenty fast/fun.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Certainly not by itself. But it helps set expectations for when I go drive it for the first time to evaluate whether to buy it.

Can you tell me how you would be able to tell this on your average around the neighborhood dealer test drive? Seriously wondering.
I would think the x2 power levels and 600 lbs compared to an 86 would play a bigger factor in what I notice, not to mention taking in all the controls, gauges, dash, seats, etc.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I suspect most of us are in the middle somewhere, where we might buy one or might not and are interested in the information about the car potentially being misrepresented.

Sounds like a lot of newbies to this forum...They hear a lot of things online regarding the 86 i.e. a lot of noise. Articles & opinions. And most of the long time members respond saying they should test drive it.

Originally Posted by xdavidx

Plus the cost of holding and maintaining a car in a bubble for decades makes absolutely no investment sense. Much better off sticking the cash in an S&P 500 fund and then you can buy 10 of your dream cars in 40 years.

I consider our cars a worthy investment. $25K for a car I get to keep for many reliable years and contributes to my elevated mood, increased smiles, left-leg & right-hand workouts, photography practice, and gets me out of the house it got a little dust on it so it's time to wash it again today.

Originally Posted by xdavidx

Also, the dream cars of those of us who were of age in the 90s will not be the dream cars of those coming of age now and those are the ones that will be valuable one day (if this generation will even value cars at all).

I think cars are like fashion. Boot cut jeans AND skinny jeans both came back. Today's generation (16-25) still pine over some of the same cars. It might have to do with the fact that gasoline, manually driven cars are still the norm today.
If you mean another generation from now, maybe 25 more years? I could see how that might be much more different.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Can you tell me how you would be able to tell this on your average around the neighborhood dealer test drive?

No.

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Sounds like a lot of newbies to this forum...They hear a lot of things online regarding the 86 i.e. a lot of noise. Articles & opinions. And most of the long time members respond saying they should test drive it.

The two are not mutually exclusive. I read information and reviews about the BRZ before I went to drive one, including negative opinions. Then I went to drive it to confirm or reject the expectation I had formed. When other people come here looking for information, I don't recall anybody telling them to ignore what they read, but that research alone will not convey the driving experience and adequately inform them whether they will enjoy driving this car.

I'm now forming an expectation for the Supra. I'm not going to make a decision based on one factor like a 1" fib about the center of gravity. But it will definitely become another attribute that will combine with 1000 other attributes to form my pre-test drive expectation of the car.

[why?]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

The old Supra is not valuable. It was a $50K car then. Now you can buy them for $30K, at most $50K for a particularly clean example. After inflation and carrying costs, keeping its value is a loss.

Plus there should be a penalty assumed just for having the poor taste to keep something that ugly around for that long.

There are idiots that are spending six figures on them, so yes they are becoming valuable. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ls-for-173600/

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

The old Supra is not valuable. It was a $50K car then. Now you can buy them for $30K, at most $50K for a particularly clean example. After inflation and carrying costs, keeping its value is a loss.

Plus there should be a penalty assumed just for having the poor taste to keep something that ugly around for that long.

Please find me an unmolested Supra TT 6 speed that is under $50k.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by why?

There are idiots that are spending six figures on them, so yes they are becoming valuable. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ls-for-173600/

Two. There have been two that have gone for those prices. Two doesn't make a trend.

A '94 would have cost you about $47K to get out the door. To break even, you'd have to bring $81K PLUS all the cost of holding onto it all those years, insurance, taxes, storage, maintenance, etc. If you started with a '96 it bumps up to $90K plus the carrying costs. Just to break even.

Two cars sold well above the market value during auction frenzy are outliers. The overwhelming majority are big losers.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Please find me an unmolested Supra TT 6 speed that is under $50k.

Try to find an unmolested LHD TT Supra 6 speed period...….

Almlost every supra I see for sale is a RHD imported from Japan (pre-molested)

[Tokay444]

Exactly.
"bUt ThEy'Re ThIrTy GrAnD"

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Two. There have been two that have gone for those prices. Two doesn't make a trend.

A '94 would have cost you about $47K to get out the door. To break even, you'd have to bring $81K PLUS all the cost of holding onto it all those years, insurance, taxes, storage, maintenance, etc. If you started with a '96 it bumps up to $90K plus the carrying costs. Just to break even.

Two cars sold well above the market value during auction frenzy are outliers. The overwhelming majority are big losers.

The point is that in the year 2019, the going rate for a turbo MKIV is not in the 30k range.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The point is that in the year 2019, the going rate for a turbo MKIV is not in the 30k range.

A quick check of sales sites shows a Mark IV turbo seems to have an average asking price of around $60K so yes saying $30K is way off base but so is saying they are $130K. In fact the $30K is much closer to the average.


Meanwhile you can pick up a nice looking Mark III for a song with many prices being well below the cost of a decent used FRS.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The point is that in the year 2019, the going rate for a turbo MKIV is not in the 30k range.

I didn't mention turbos. There are two N/A Supras listed near me right now for $28K each. There's a '94 turbo with a manual transmission listed for $51K and a '97 turbo auto for $50K. $50K and $30K seem to be the magic numbers, meaning both of them would still be losers as investment vehicles.

[extrashaky]

Hey, where did that post go?

In any case, here's the link he posted:

https://bringatrailer.com/toyota/supra/

What that scatterplot shows us is that the overwhelming majority of the sales are below $60K and are still losers as investments.

There seven above $60K that are also below the original price adjusted for inflation, so those also are losers.

There are two that are outliers. Both of them were sold during an auction frenzy, and one of them was bought by a dealership as a marketing gimmick.

So that just proves my point. It's a loser. The new Supra will also be a loser, so there's no point in buying one to store away as an "investment." Buy it to drive it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I didn't mention turbos. There are two N/A Supras listed near me right now for $28K each. There's a '94 turbo with a manual transmission listed for $51K and a '97 turbo auto for $50K. $50K and $30K seem to be the magic numbers, meaning both of them would still be losers as investment vehicles.

If it wasn't for a movie and some video games the prices would probably be 30% to 50% less on the MKIVs!
It was a good car in it's day but would not have near the following it does now without the (fictional) exposure it received. The same applies to the 2JZ engine that so many think is the ultimate in technology even though it is an inefficient, 30 year old design.


OK fanboi's flame away and rationalize why I am wrong!