Are sway bars worth it?

[Clutch Dog]

Yes, But sway bars are really an "end of mod" purchase. to effect balance from the front and rear.
I have a 22m front and 18mm, rear but i also have springs, shocks, bracing, bracing bracing, tires, brakes, and more bracing.

And currently to help prevent front wheel scrub I have the front full stiff and the rear set to middle. Too much rear sway makes the car unstable on throttle on exit, now that I have the wing I might change that but again

it's an "end of mod" item.

As it was mentioned, feel out the car with proper shocks and tires and have it tell you what it needs

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Where's @Captain Snooze?

Here I am!
Not much more to add.
For quite some time I was not using any bars on 6k/6k springs and 9k/10k springs. I am only using the oem sways on 7k/6k springs now because the damper maker was weirded out that I was not using sways with his product.
Too big an anti-sway bar is definitely a bad thing.



Because compromise.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by churchx

I have suspicion that fight for decreasing roll often is done more to boost driver confidence to push more, not so much to actually improve suspension.

My opinion as well. I think while some sway bar tweaking stands to improve grip by changing the chassis dynamics to be less easily unsettled, where the unsettling would create unexpected understeer. But I'm of the opinion that sway bars don't change the physics of tire grip. In some cases, you want the inside tire to droop and maintain a little grip which would be a looser sway bar.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by wparsons

A stiffer rear sway bar will decrease the amount of power you can put to the ground in a corner... go too big and it'll lift the inside rear tire and REALLY limit how much power you can put down.


Sway bars should be a fine tuning aid, not the first solution to increase roll stiffness.

It depends on your spring rate. I wanted to stuck with soft springs for comfort, in which case the stiffer bar keeps you from rolling off the contact patch on the outside tire.

I'm not running crazy bars, just the Perrin 19mm front and 16mm rear. I'm also not saying they're a cure all. I just wanted more roll stiffness without touching the springs. They're definitely a fine tuning tool to get the car to rotate to your preference.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Here I am!
Not much more to add.
For quite some time I was not using any bars on 6k/6k springs and 9k/10k springs. I am only using the oem sways on 7k/6k springs now because the damper maker was weirded out that I was not using sways with his product.
Too big an anti-sway bar is definitely a bad thing.

But did you prefer running without sways long after your first impressions? Would you do it again?

[CoolHandMoss]

It is worth it to buy the used Whiteline bar I am selling. Definitely.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

But did you prefer running without sways long after your first impressions? Would you do it again?

It was a learning experience. I didn't know what I was doing; I thought bigger sways equaled better. With the 6k/6k set up the sways were too much for the springs. That is, I could feel the cross talk at the front. I did not use sways with 9k/10k springs.



For my noob/amateur needs I would much prefer not to use sways because of my experience with using too much anti-sway. That is, I think using higher rate springs with good damping is less of a compromise. (Yeah, there's that word again.)

[Spuds]

Disclaimer, I'm a suspension noob.

It seems to me that 2 benefits of anti-sway bars are that the car takes a set quicker in a corner and it helps maintain front camber in a car with McPherson Struts. Not to say that you can't do that with stiffer springs (which should also reduce dive and squat), but that could compromise performance on a bumpy surface.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Disclaimer, I'm a suspension noob.

It seems to me that 2 benefits of anti-sway bars are that the car takes a set quicker in a corner and it helps maintain front camber in a car with McPherson Struts. Not to say that you can't do that with stiffer springs (which should also reduce dive and squat), but that could compromise performance on a bumpy surface.

I think you pretty much have it. It applies for normal passenger cars - which, of course, the 86 is - but how much do they help when you're already in the bump stops?


I've been taking my sweet time feeling out the stock setup. Time for me to pick a direction. RIP, checking account.

[churchx]

Spuds: antiroll bars don't do a thing for dive & squat. They act as extra springs only in case of roll, when one side wheel is bumped. With mass transfer to front and rear, when both wheels go up or down together, swaybars simply freely rotate together with them.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by churchx

Spuds: antiroll bars don't do a thing for dive & squat. They act as extra springs only in case of roll, when one side wheel is bumped. With mass transfer to front and rear, when both wheels go up or down together, swaybars simply freely rotate together with them.

You might want to re-read my post... I said stiffer springs affect dive and squat. Anti-sway bars do not.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I think you pretty much have it. It applies for normal passenger cars - which, of course, the 86 is - but how much do they help when you're already in the bump stops?


I've been taking my sweet time feeling out the stock setup. Time for me to pick a direction. RIP, checking account.

I could be misunderstanding how this works, but if you are hitting the bump stops in a corner your suspension has more problems than the wrong anti-sway bar size.

You and me both... Im happy with the stock setup, but how would I know if there's something better if I don't experiment. But that's a whole lot of time and money...

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I could be misunderstanding how this works, but if you are hitting the bump stops in a corner your suspension has more problems than the wrong anti-sway bar size.

You and me both... Im happy with the stock setup, but how would I know if there's something better if I don't experiment. But that's a whole lot of time and money...

Right? Ugh... At the same time, if I was made of money, I feel like I'd take it all for granted.


I don't know how common the practice but this one was designed to ride the bumpers when loaded up. It's a so-so compromise until consistently driven above 7/10-ish. Then it's annoying. Bilsteins are looking good lately.

[churchx]

Spuds: oh, sorry, i was too inattentive quick reading through it.

Regarding hitting bumpstops, of course right way would be to match springrates to tire grip and driving style, then stiffer swaybars. I actually don't get why swaybars are such popular aftermarket item to be bought/installed, especially without doing lot of homework first if needed and which needed or consulting pros/competent shops. And often it seems that they are bought not for specific handling change, eg. fine tuning grip balance, but rather by "aftermarket parts are better", "bigger is better", "they cost less then coilovers".
But in general, IIRC such soft springrates+bump-stop active suspension setups as on ours stock, are rather popular on current cars, giving a bit more comfort/compliance for daily driving. Yes, suboptimal for suspension performance when pushed at limits, but with it's cons/pros viable choice in eyes of many manufacturers, mostly thinking of daily driving performance, when choosing compromises.

As i'm suspension noob too, i prefer to simply reuse setups of similar use that worked well for people with more clue/experience, or do changes according their advises on what i want to achieve, instead of blindly throwing aftermarket parts in suspension, and at most finding placebo improvement for sake of justifying purchase. My own lacking skills and consistency certainly cannot serve enough to properly evaluate changes. You noted well, that proper testing needs time and money .. i'd extend that also with skills ensuring consistency for proper testing and experience to know if/what/how/to what extent needs to be changed instead of trying out every possible combination if better or worse.