My BRZ went like on BaT today - Wish me luck!

[GrantedTaken]

I predict
Reserve Not Met

[ocbrz66]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Three for three. Those are apportioned plates for an interstate commercial truck fleet. "Apportioned" means that rather than having to pay taxes in each state separately, taxes are paid to one state, then distributed among the states where the fleet is registered to operate.

That has nothing to do with your tax scam. That would be like Uhaul registering its trucks just in Arizona, then not paying taxes to the other states where the trucks operate. So this analogy doesn't work either, because it's exactly the opposite of what you're arguing.



That article doesn't say it's bullet proof. It says that it was tested in Louisiana court. The same article actually points out that just because it worked (once) in Louisiana doesn't mean it would work in other places:

"California, Massachusetts and Iowa have passed laws aiming to prevent their residents from using the Montana loophole."

Furthermore, your article leaves out a seemingly minor detail in Thomas v. Bridges that made it all work. The court found that the guy didn't actually garage the RV in Louisiana. He kept it parked in Mississippi. So not only is it not relevant to California, but it's also not really relevant to Louisiana.



Ever heard of "piercing the corporate veil"? The general principle is that if you use a corporate entity to enable or hide the illegal actions of an individual, the veil of protection and/or anonymity normally afforded by the corporate entity is void, and the individual owners become liable instead.

Formation of a corporation for the sole purpose of breaking the law in your home state is pretty much the definition of a sham corporation. Your LLC is not worth the toilet paper it's printed on.

What's more, the CHP has set up a tip site for people to report Montana tax scam LLCs. And here you are boasting about it in public. Personally I think I'd keep that very quiet.

Can you please shoot me the case where CA went after a Montana LLC in court over this?

Again, I'm very thankful for the free legal advice. It's true what they say, you get what you pay for .

https://www.chp.ca.gov/notify-chp/ch...tion-violators)

head to a C&C in CA, log each Montana plate into that site and then come back in 6 months, keep me posted on your results.

This has literally being going on for decades and yet anytime it comes up some internet lawyer or blogger thinks they've "cracked the case" and that the hammer of justice will be coming down any minute now. Keep banging that drum because a Jalopnik blogger said this is super illegal and we're all going to jail.

If I'm sure about anything its that when CA cracks down on this (never) they'll skip right past the big fish and start with the BRZ crowd.

[ocbrz66]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I think OP has fun with his insurance company...

"my car has Montana plates but I live and drive it in California"... even if you make no claims, to get a policy and misrepresent the conditions under which the car is insured is fraud.

have fun with this. Buyer beware.

https://jalopnik.com/the-pitfalls-of...cam-1711216059

Insurance company is fully informed, LLC is listed as an "also insured".

You guys put too much faith in bloggers writing scare stories for clicks.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by ocbrz66

Insurance company is fully informed, LLC is listed as an "also insured".

You guys put too much faith in bloggers writing scare stories for clicks.

I only referenced the link because it's easy to find and relatively simple.

You're clearly doing this to evade smog requirements and not pay taxes for a vehicle you drive in California. I don't care where you registered it, I don't care if your company and insurance is legit or not, you want to talk about "states rights" yet you clearly don't care for California's state rights. So which is it?

[ocbrz66]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I only referenced the link because it's easy to find and relatively simple.

You're clearly doing this to evade smog requirements and not pay taxes for a vehicle you drive in California. I don't care where you registered it, I don't care if your company and insurance is legit or not, you want to talk about "states rights" yet you clearly don't care for California's state rights. So which is it?

When talking about Montana LLCs you have to decide whether you want to talk about the legality or the morality. Legally, this is bullet proof. It's been tested in court before. ( https://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...c0bf7e398.html ).


As for the moral question, I have a personal policy against debating morality online.

I'm only speaking to the legal aspect. I don't look to online strangers for moral condemnation.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by ocbrz66

I'm only speaking to the legal aspect. I don't look to online strangers for moral condemnation.

and I am only speaking to the legal aspect as well....

Caveat Emptor.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by ocbrz66

Can you please shoot me the case where CA went after a Montana LLC in court over this?

Actually, logically it should go the other way. California says it's illegal, and that they'll send you a bill for overdue taxes if they catch you doing it. They don't need to take you to court. You either pay it, or you appeal.

If anybody has appealed and won, there should be a California case knocking down the legality of the California statute. I couldn't find any such thing. Seems like there should be at least one if this is really "bullet proof." It's really you who ought to be providing this legal precedent, not me.

The more likely scenario is that the people who get caught grudgingly pay their taxes after all. First they get mad and say, "What? They can't charge me taxes!" Then they go see a lawyer. And the lawyer says, "What idiot told you this was legal?"

And then they go back to the Montana firm that set up the LLC in the first place, whose attorneys quickly point out the multiple documents the tax cheat signed stating that no representation was made as to the legality of the service in the cheat's home state, and that the cheat is responsible for all state and local taxes.

So the tax cheat pays the taxes. Or they can't afford it and end up getting a judgment and lien on record.

And CA's supreme court never has to get involved.

Originally Posted by ocbrz66

Insurance company is fully informed, LLC is listed as an "also insured".

How is the LLC "also insured" if the LLC owns the car?

[ocbrz66]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Actually, logically it should go the other way. California says it's illegal, and that they'll send you a bill for overdue taxes if they catch you doing it. They don't need to take you to court. You either pay it, or you appeal.

If anybody has appealed and won, there should be a California case knocking down the legality of the California statute. I couldn't find any such thing. Seems like there should be at least one if this is really "bullet proof." It's really you who ought to be providing this legal precedent, not me.

The more likely scenario is that the people who get caught grudgingly pay their taxes after all. First they get mad and say, "What? They can't charge me taxes!" Then they go see a lawyer. And the lawyer says, "What idiot told you this was legal?"

And then they go back to the Montana firm that set up the LLC in the first place, whose attorneys quickly point out the multiple documents the tax cheat signed stating that no representation was made as to the legality of the service in the cheat's home state, and that the cheat is responsible for all state and local taxes.

So the tax cheat pays the taxes. Or they can't afford it and end up getting a judgment and lien on record.

And CA's supreme court never has to get involved.



How is the LLC "also insured" if the LLC owns the car?

That's not going to happen and if it does I'll be OK. Calculated risk and this was an easy calculation since its essentially 0 risk.

[maslin]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

And then they go back to the Montana firm that set up the LLC in the first place, whose attorneys quickly point out the multiple documents the tax cheat signed stating that no representation was made as to the legality of the service in the cheat's home state, and that the cheat is responsible for all state and local taxes.

Something like this? Their bold, not mine.


"We have an attorney on retainer to confirm our documents are endorsed by the State of Montana, to advise us on the registration laws in your state and to answer any of your questions that need a legal response regarding Montana Law. Doing this keeps our information current and our expenses low.

Remember the Montana Attorney is only acting as your “Agent”. An attorney only licensed to practice law in Montana and not licensed to practice law in any other state, will not be able to represent you in your state of residence. If any problem does happen to arise, you will need an attorney in your home state, not Montana.

The Montana LLC is set up according to the Laws and Statutes of Montana, and has been approved by the Montana Secretary of State. This should be done before any transactions can be made using the LLC. Therefore a Montana Attorney is not necessary to set up the LLC. We recommend that you contact your Attorney, Accountant or Tax Preparer in your home state to confirm that a Montana LLC can save you money."


These guys were down the street from my shop in Missoula. He has a hanger full of cars "taking a break".

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mrg666

That MG is mine, keep your hands off.

All yours, I'll get the next one....

I love the wire spoke wheels. I came really close to pulling the trigger on a set for the FRS.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by ocbrz66

That's not going to happen and if it does I'll be OK. Calculated risk and this was an easy calculation since its essentially 0 risk.

I agree with that. You likely will get away with it. I personally don't have a problem with you getting away with it. I would even root for you to win.

But, "I know I'm breaking the law but I'll never get caught" is a lot different from "What I'm doing is legally bulletproof."

[86MLR]

How many more kittens are killed with this tax scam IRT catless headers/front pipes and/or aftermarket tunes.

I Fought the Law https://g.co/kgs/jgmBr2

[ocbrz66]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I agree with that. You likely will get away with it. I personally don't have a problem with you getting away with it. I would even root for you to win.

But, "I know I'm breaking the law but I'll never get caught" is a lot different from "What I'm doing is legally bulletproof."

I'm not a lawyer so admittedly "bulletproof" is a measure of my own comfort of the logic behind Montana LLCs.

Honestly I feel more comfortable going this route than the other route which is shady smog shops.

I once got pulled over in CA and got a speeding ticket with out of state plates that were over 4 years expired. The CHP officer handed me my speed ticket and I was on my way. A single anecdote I know but it gives flys in the face of other posters here that seem to think that they're going to throw you in the clink for having a Montana plate.

Remind me never to tell anyone here what I write on the DMV form for what I paid for cars I do register in CA. They'd think I was akin to the unabomber.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ocbrz66

Remind me never to tell anyone here what I write on the DMV form for what I paid for cars I do register in CA.

Oh I miss those days!
"Here is my receipt for $750 for my 58 Ford please give me my plates"
Here in Ontario they now have a reference library of values. Try to hand them a receipt for too little (according to that list) they are either going to make you pay taxes on the base price listed or get the car appraised to prove it is worth less than that. Of course they don't give you a reduced rate if you tell them it is higher than their list says it should be.