E85 On Stock 2017+ Cars Specifically

[Dom_J]

We have to take the cues from the tried and true Honda game. We're not talking rocket science. A 2 liter, is a 2 liter, is a 2 liter...we just so happen to get an extremely efficient one that is severely underappreciated if you ask me, to include the platform itself.

E30 M3 = Legend
Type R Integra = Legend
FRS/BRZ/86 = [insert stereotypical industry twins quote]

-3" Intake(real cold air intake)
-Race Header(no cat)
-E85 Tune(preferably not a can tune but they're proven to work well)

No matter how you slice it, this is it and it works. Enjoy a fun 200whp, there's no need for anything bigger than 2.5" on the exhaust side until boost. Feeling froggy, play with the gearing but enjoy that 200whp. It's really plenty. Using my k-series recipe on my BRZ has been beautiful, I'm super shocked at what I can keep up with at 200+whp.

[Oxyg3n]

Well as an update to this thread, I got my OFT and flashed the Stage 2+ E85 tune v4.03 and man is there a difference! It definitely pulls harder in the 3-4k range with a little of that "push you into your seat feeling," but what really surprised me is the sudden surge of torque from 4.5k+ is even more prominent now.

Some differences I've noticed so far is the engine sounds a lot more mechanical in the higher rpm ranges and slight overall exhaust tone difference. Startup will definitely take some getting used to as my first startup struggled @65 degrees fahrenheit outside temperature. If my mind isn't playing tricks on me, I really feel like the car feels just as fast as a 2015 ecoboost I drove for a few days haha.

Also, my car's mpg is telling me I got around 30MPG on my first e85 tank, when in reality I got about 23..hope it adjusts.

[Mr_Eyo]

Originally Posted by Oxyg3n

Well as an update to this thread, I got my OFT and flashed the Stage 2+ E85 tune v4.03 and man is there a difference! It definitely pulls harder in the 3-4k range with a little of that "push you into your seat feeling," but what really surprised me is the sudden surge of torque from 4.5k+ is even more prominent now.

Some differences I've noticed so far is the engine sounds a lot more mechanical in the higher rpm ranges and slight overall exhaust tone difference. Startup will definitely take some getting used to as my first startup struggled @65 degrees fahrenheit outside temperature. If my mind isn't playing tricks on me, I really feel like the car feels just as fast as a 2015 ecoboost I drove for a few days haha.

Also, my car's mpg is telling me I got around 30MPG on my first e85 tank, when in reality I got about 23..hope it adjusts.

You can fix the mpg display by changing a scale factor.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...54&postcount=1


Correcting In dash fuel economy readout when on E85

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Oxyg3n

Well as an update to this thread, I got my OFT and flashed the Stage 2+ E85 tune v4.03 and man is there a difference! It definitely pulls harder in the 3-4k range with a little of that "push you into your seat feeling," but what really surprised me is the sudden surge of torque from 4.5k+ is even more prominent now.

Some differences I've noticed so far is the engine sounds a lot more mechanical in the higher rpm ranges and slight overall exhaust tone difference. Startup will definitely take some getting used to as my first startup struggled @65 degrees fahrenheit outside temperature. If my mind isn't playing tricks on me, I really feel like the car feels just as fast as a 2015 ecoboost I drove for a few days haha.

Also, my car's mpg is telling me I got around 30MPG on my first e85 tank, when in reality I got about 23..hope it adjusts.

Yeah the display needs scaling and your mileage will drop even more on the next fill up. One other thing I’ve noticed is it pulls smoother at very low RPMs in stop and go traffic. Low as in 1500rpm. It doesn’t rattle and shake like on 93. Cold starts are heavily dependent on the E%. In the winter they change the blend to make cold starts easier. I first switched to E85 at the end of the summer and as it got cold it got to the point where it took 4 tries sometimes. Then the blend switched and I was back to single crank starts. There are some tweaks you can make to help with cold starts but I never got around to trying them. Maybe this winter I will give it a shot.

[Oxyg3n]

Originally Posted by ermax

Yeah the display needs scaling and your mileage will drop even more on the next fill up. One other thing I’ve noticed is it pulls smoother at very low RPMs in stop and go traffic. Low as in 1500rpm. It doesn’t rattle and shake like on 93. Cold starts are heavily dependent on the E%. In the winter they change the blend to make cold starts easier. I first switched to E85 at the end of the summer and as it got cold it got to the point where it took 4 tries sometimes. Then the blend switched and I was back to single crank starts. There are some tweaks you can make to help with cold starts but I never got around to trying them. Maybe this winter I will give it a shot.

I think it may be because the throttle input is more sensitive and strong. My rpm spikes when I give it a small blip. I'm going to test out the car in stop and go traffic and hope it smooths out the car. It would previously chug around when my car reached lower speeds (<10mph) in traffic even if I'm not touching any of the pedals.

As for the e85 blend in California, unfortunately I think we always have the same e% year round (about 83%) because of tax laws.

I found this quote about Pearson e85 from a bmw forums if any California people were interested lol:
I was able to get in touch with California’s largest E85 distributor, Pearson Fuels and this what the CEO had to say about E85 content/quality in California
“That is a great question because the labels that we are required to post on the dispensers by different government agencies can be very confusing. While we do have the ability to vary the blend seasonally, in reality, all the E85 we blend in the entire state is calculated to be blended at 83.3% ethanol. We regularly do field testing and the fuel almost always comes back within 1-2% of 83.3%. This little variance can probably be attributed to variances in the evaporation rates of ethanol and gasoline and the fact that a big tank of thousands of gallons might have some variation throughout the tank, much like you might have an alcoholic drink that can be stronger at the bottom or top.

The California Air Resources Board allows us to blend at a rate lower than 83.3% but if we did that then the price of E85 would have to go up about $.20 per gallon because we would then be subject to state excise tax which we are exempt from now. It is a conflict between air pollution regulations and tax laws so it should continue to be 83.3% unless we make a big social media announcement one day, which we do not see on the horizon.

Very rarely, we will have a blend that is not at the 83% (less than 1% of the deliveries). In that case, if it is still legal E85 then we will sell it and put a sign on the pump that says “Attention Racers: This E85 is blended at XX%. This a temporary situation and when this sign is removed it will revert to 83%”. I think that has happened 2-3 times in the history of the company so it is very much the exception. Every once in a while someone will contact us and tell us that the blend percentage is off or we hear chatter on the social media and when we test the fuel almost every time the blend is right near 83%.”
Mike Lewis, CEO of Pearson Fuels

[bfrank1972]

You know, not sure if its psychological or what, but I've switched from 93 to E85 with the stage 2+ E85 tune (P&L catted EL header) and both times I wasn't really wowed. Fuel trims were stable and ran through a whole tank. E85 for me is about 20 minutes the wrong way so 40 minutes total for E85 is a pain. Dont think I'm doing anything wrong - maybe I will try a third time for kicks to see if I feel a big difference.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Oxyg3n]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

You know, not sure if its psychological or what, but I've switched from 93 to E85 with the stage 2+ E85 tune (P&L catted EL header) and both times I wasn't really wowed. Fuel trims were stable and ran through a whole tank. E85 for me is about 20 minutes the wrong way so 40 minutes total for E85 is a pain. Dont think I'm doing anything wrong - maybe I will try a third time for kicks to see if I feel a big difference.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Not too sure maybe because you already had a header and tune before trying e85 which would be a smaller jump? I'm going from a fully stock car except for perrin catback and 91 to e85.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Exactly. Gains from a header and e85 are not additive. A header gets your most of the way there, so adding E85 didn't add that much.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by Oxyg3n

Not too sure maybe because you already had a header and tune before trying e85 which would be a smaller jump? I'm going from a fully stock car except for perrin catback and 91 to e85.

You're right. Conversely adding a header to my e85 tuned car made a small difference. 200 hp is the limit and e85 will get you there. Header will fill in midrange a little.

[bfrank1972]

Ah got it, also maybe making the jump from the 93 we have here is a little bit less than the the jump from 91 to E85.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

You know, not sure if its psychological or what, but I've switched from 93 to E85 with the stage 2+ E85 tune (P&L catted EL header) and both times I wasn't really wowed. Fuel trims were stable and ran through a whole tank. E85 for me is about 20 minutes the wrong way so 40 minutes total for E85 is a pain. Dont think I'm doing anything wrong - maybe I will try a third time for kicks to see if I feel a big difference.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

From what I’ve read, seen dynos, and many others attest. E85 is additive maybe with slight diminishing returns though, and should make a solid difference. How much you personally can feel say 10whp idk.
A few things to note about your situation specifically.

One as you said 93-E85 is smaller jump then from 91 but still a big jump none the less.

You mention you are on a stage 2+ E85 tune. The OTS tune is more conservative tune especially with E85 bcs the ethanol % varies so much needs to cover a wide % range to be safe. without flex fuel and custom tune you won’t really be tapping into the true power of E85, also those tunes are designed to be used with UEL or EL in doing so won’t fully maximize either one.

Lastly I know those tunes are set to have IAM start at .7 and go up if no knock is detected. Is your IAM going up to and then staying at 1 on both 93 and E85 tunes? If it stays at 1 on 93 but is constantly dropping to say .8 on E85 it’s going to pull timing and drop power a little on E85 making the difference less. I think flex fuel and custom tune could really make a difference.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Lastly I know those tunes are set to have IAM start at .7 and go up if no knock is detected. Is your IAM going up to and then staying at 1 on both 93 and E85 tunes? If it stays at 1 on 93 but is constantly dropping to say .8 on E85 it’s going to pull timing and drop power a little on E85 making the difference less. I think flex fuel and custom tune could really make a difference.

The E85 tune is not set up like that, only the pump gas maps

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

The E85 tune is not set up like that, only the pump gas maps

I was unaware the OTS E85 tune has the IAM setup different. I do recall seeing a lot people having issues with IAM dropping on OTS E85 tune though.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Ah got it, also maybe making the jump from the 93 we have here is a little bit less than the the jump from 91 to E85.

Yeah I think that's right. It seems like 91 vs. 93 makes a pretty big difference on these engines. When I used to live on the east coast, my car ran great on 93. IAM was solidly at 1.00 (when street-driving) with the different OFT OTS tunes I've used - stage 1, stage 2 catless, stage 2 catted.

But when I moved to the west coast, IAM dropped to 0.66 on stage 1 OTS on 91.

Now that I switched to e85, IAM is back to 1.00. With a stock header, it feels like it pulls about the same from 4000 to redline as my old stage 2 UEL catless setup on 93.