Which Intake are you getting?!

[|-Goku-|]

Originally Posted by dabocx

http://blog.perrinperformance.com/wp...tage1-test.jpg

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=10159&page=9

Doesn't really tell me anything. Is their "Big intake" a Cold air intake?

[eikond]

Originally Posted by Blue86

dyno graphs aren't proof or you don't believe the numbers?

I'm sure the dyno graphs are close to accurate.. What I don't believe is that the intake itself makes a whole lot of power.

So naturally, you're thinking.. "what an idiot, clearly if he could read he could see that the dyno plots show around 5hp gain on average." Seems pretty simple right..

I disagree. I don't think the intake is really making that much power. What I think is that the power gain is a byproduct of leaning out the a/f ratio at higher rpm's.

I'd rather wait for a good tuning option to adjust a/f ration's to max hp the proper way. I think the stock system is just fine.. though I hate the noise generator and the resonator. I'll cap those and be happy with the stock system until I reach a point when I can see proof that a tuning or turbo and tune require a replacement intake to improve results.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by eikond

I

I disagree. I don't think the intake is really making that much power. What I think is that the power gain is a byproduct of leaning out the a/f ratio at higher rpm's.

I think this argument is basically "what comes first, the chicken or the egg?"

You are right the HP is made because the a/f is leaning out, but why is it leaning out? Well, because of the intake. That is one of the things a tune will do, lean out the a/f a little bit because stock is too rich. So again, which made the power, the a/f leaning out ok; but what leaned out the a/f ratio?? The intake. So if a=b and b=c, a=c

Anyone feel free to correct me. :happy0180:

[Symbiont]

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

But don't say they are not providing dynos because they exist.

Can you comment on how Injen's intake feel? (Try to be unbiased). I know most probably close to redline it must pull GOOD. But what about the rest of the revline?

Oh, no, you're right, I didn't know they had posted a dyno when I made that last post (until you posted that link). I had just been requesting info from them for a month and had no reply.

Honestly, I love the intake. Aside from just how gosh darn cool the guys are down there, this is my first tuner part, ever. Yes, I'm a noob, sorry.

That being said, all I can do is compare it to stock. It's a huge difference in sound and throttle response, and the car clearly accelerates quicker (especially at high RPM). Even at low RPM, though, the increased airflow (or something) makes the engine feel much more responsive, which I completely appreciate.

I really hope everyone picks the intake they prefer. I like some of the other offerings a lot, but the reasons I stated above made Injen my favorite, aside from having met all the guys. I love the look of the polished tube coming out of the black airbox.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Symbiont

I really hope everyone picks the intake they prefer. I like some of the other offerings a lot, but the reasons I stated above made Injen my favorite, aside from having met all the guys. I love the look of the polished tube coming out of the black airbox.

I am torn with all of them. I think I'm just going to wait it out a little longer and get one later on.

Thanks for the feedback. :happy0180:

[Calidrifter]

Originally Posted by |-Goku-|

Doesn't really tell me anything. Is their "Big intake" a Cold air intake?

Since you didn't read the blog. The big intake is a race version of the intake they are developing. This intake will require a ECU tune.

[bakerr6]

I'm waiting on a FI option, preferably a turbo, hence why I chose none

[eikond]

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

I think this argument is basically "what comes first, the chicken or the egg?"

You are right the HP is made because the a/f is leaning out, but why is it leaning out? Well, because of the intake. That is one of the things a tune will do, lean out the a/f a little bit because stock is too rich. So again, which made the power, the a/f leaning out ok; but what leaned out the a/f ratio?? The intake. So if a=b and b=c, a=c

Anyone feel free to correct me. :happy0180:

So if we agree that the reason an intake makes power is because it lean's out the A/F ratio.. Why shouldn't we all just go out an buy an SAFC? You can get them for $200 or less on ebay. Then can trick your car into leaning out the A/F even more than an intake.. probably make more power in the process.. and you get a neat little digital screen in your interior.

I understand what you are saying. But, I guess my preference would be to mod the car with more control and safety. Doing so by properly tuning the engine to add less fuel is better than tricking the MAF. By tuning you know exactly what you are doing and are in full control of the parameters. You set a proper building block for future mods as well.

Now having said that.. I'm not out buying a tune right now either. I think the current option(s) is too expensive.... way too expensive. I'll wait for a while until competition brings the price down. Anyhow.. sorry for the tangent.

I'm not claiming that an intake is unsafe or bad form. I guess I'm just bucking the trend a little bit. For years companies have been making millions selling us air pipes they claim flow more air and "allow the engine to breath better". I think a little differently. The engine is a suction device and the only issue to worry about with an intake is being below the restriction threshold.

Let me illustrate.. Pretend you are sucking air through a normal drinking straw. You can probably get enough air to breath, but not if you went for a run. So let's make that straw bigger.. say its the size of a 2' long vacuum cleaner hose.. Now you can get as much air as you want no matter what you are doing because you're well past the restriction threshold. Would your ability to breath be minimized if you curved that vacuum cleaner hose a couple times? No.. it's still easily big enough to give you enough air. If you can already get as much air as you can suck in through a vacuum hose to your mouth, would it be more helpful to switch to a pipe that is twice as big? Nope.. you already have no restriction, so what good would it do? I think Subaru and all other modern car manufacturers are smart enough to make that intake system easily exceed the restriction threshold. They know that people will let the air filters get way too dirty as well, so I have to believe they compensate for this potential by making all intake

Here's an interesting video: If you haven't watch might car mods, you should.. it's really entertaining. It's slightly different because they are testing the theory of "cold air intake" and we're talking about full intake redesign from throttle body forward.. but if you pay attention you'll notice that they talk about restriction as well..
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi2yo4UqPI&feature=player_detailpage"]Mighty Car Mods - Cold Air Intakes Mythbusted (Turbo) - YouTube[/ame]


One last disclaimer: I'm not saying that aftermarket intakes make zero power. I'm sure the design of the piping is slightly better than stock and I'm sure if you shorten the total path of the piping you can increase responsiveness a little bit.. I'm sure the simple design of the intake isolated from the a/f issue can make a 1 or 2 horsepower, or quicken response a hair, or at least make a better noise... which can impact perception of performance. So I have no problem with other people buying intakes.. I'm just not running out to spend $200 on one myself.. not right now at least.. maybe in combination with an FI system in the future or with a good tune setup, etc..

[Sportsguy83]

I agree with you 10000%. I agree for real with every single word you said. I just wanted to point out the leaning out was a byproduct of the intake (which I know you already knew as I've read other of your post and you are very knowledgeable.). You are absolutely right that the real benefit of the intake will be with a tune. Thank you for inserting way more knowledge into the thread than I did.

[2forme]

I was going to go with Takeda myself, but the way they handled dynos made me think twice. I'm not about to shell out 350 bux for a smoother looking stock intake, ya know? I'm going to wait for more third party unbiased dynos to appear, or until a company offers me an intake to do my own third party dynos... but we know that isn't going to happen.

[Draco-REX]

While the car is under warranty, I'm keeping the stock intake and tune. Maybe when it's out of warranty and if I decide to keep it instead of trading up, I'll go for an intake or FI kit. But for now, it's staying stock power.

[drifter]

Originally Posted by Blue86

dyno graphs aren't proof or you don't believe the numbers?

confused here. All I want is a little more power as I currently own a BRZ and jump on hwy ramps a lot.

From the graphs I've seen, it looks like these intakes lose power in certain areas. Are they all like this or are do the gains far outweigh the losses? WTF?

(sorry non-mechanic here, just using some common sense.)

[track_warrior]

Im waiting on APEXI!! Their filters are the bomb!!

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by pcasso87

Im waiting on APEXI!! Their filters are the bomb!!

Sadly I wouldn't count on them, when was the last time they brought out anything new to the market?