Random Thoughts - Part Deux [NO POLITICS]

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

There you go, and yes, its a real thing. I want one now.

Haha... Unbelievable. What a great way to die.

[Sapphireho]

A bunch of drunk middle aged guys flying around a golf course. What could possibly go wrong?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by soundman98

I agree it's not completely clean, but I'm not of the opinion that we need to reach perfection immediately. I feel it's better to work up to it. Compressed-anything has a lot of challenges, it would be better to overcome those challenges in a shape we already have data for instead of resorting to a blank canvas simply because the improvements aren't dramatic enough

That's a good argument. The existing CNG infrastructure could be upgraded when the tech is ready. I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I haven't considered that angle.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai

See? We don't need CNG. We can do hydrogen now.


Thanks, Dadhawk. I'm too lazy to dig around for this stuff on my own.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

I had tacos last night. I hope it airs out in time. Smells like a hydrogen car blewup in here.

A methane car??


humfrz

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

I had tacos last night. I hope it airs out in time. Smells like a hydrogen car blewup in here.

So, did you get an offer after your showing last night?

Side real estate note:

My first house (brand new) in San Jose, California, that I paid $23,000 for in 1969, sold last year for $900,000.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/220-She...19839747_zpid/





humfrz

[Ultramaroon]

Twins would be fueled by meh-thane.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

See? We don't need CNG. We can do hydrogen now.


Thanks, Dadhawk. I'm too lazy to dig around for this stuff on my own.

Honda Clarity also runs on hydrogen although they have a pure electric version now.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Honda Clarity also runs on hydrogen although they have a pure electric version now.

The Clarity is available as a hybrid, an FCEV, and a BEV. The fuel cell vehicle is still an electric vehicle.

Fuel cells have the advantage of energy density and quick refueling. Theoretically, FCEVs can be green if the hydrogen is sourced from solar, biomass, or something similar. Even cracking natural gas to make hydrogen might be cleaner than burning CNG or gasoline. The disadvantage is the cost of hydrogen production and the lack of distribution systems.

BEVs have the advantage of never having to go to a gas station, and there's already plenty of electric infrastructure. They're amazingly clean, especially on CNG and better power plants. We have 41 solar panels on our house, so yeah. Some of the raw resource mining for BEV materials is environmentally horrible, but that's more about the choices the miners make than anything. Those materials also end up in many other products.

Overall, BEVs are the future, methinks. Gasoline/diesel hybrids are the middle ground and will be used by truckers and those who need to go excessively long distances. The poor and a few edge cases will be using non-hybrid gas engines.

CNG is a dead end because it has both distribution and environmental problems. It's better than gas for the environment but worse than renewable sources. Yes, you can find natural gas pipes all over, but they're all at super low pressure. Then you need an electricity sucking pump to compress the gas and load it into the car. Few people are going to pay thousands and thousands to have such a system at home.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

That's a good argument. The existing CNG infrastructure could be upgraded when the tech is ready. I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I haven't considered that angle.

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

See? We don't need CNG. We can do hydrogen now.


Thanks, Dadhawk. I'm too lazy to dig around for this stuff on my own.

the mirai is selling worse than the 86!
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales.../toyota-mirai/

i just don't care for hydrogen. it's got that cutsy environmental feel to it with people drinking the water out of the tail pipe, but that's the only positive i see.


this is in the next county over from me.
https://www.epa.gov/agstar/project-p...air-oaks-farms

that's a very old article, i've been told by some people that work there that in the last couple years they started pig farming specifically because their poop has a higher energy content to get more out of the digesters that article talks about. that article doesn't discuss their pig farming stuff at all.

another big one in the area is ozinga concrete, who have converted most of their mixer trucks to run on CNG.

it's curious to me that all these companies have established their own infrastructure for CNG(i've been told RUAN installed storage stations across the country, where they can run trucks from coast to coast on CNG), where hydrogen is largely relegated to the west coast as an almost fantasy project.

https://www.planete-energies.com/en/...gen-production

i don't think hydrogen is anything more than a stopgap solution to satisfy the environmentalists.

no matter how we split it(haha), hydrogen is a creation using existing fuel sources. so we're modifying what we can already put in vehicles to create this 'NEW' fuel that's 'cleaner'. hydrogen just comes off to me as a party trick to keep the masses entertained while the real magician sets up his mirrors on the other side of the stage.

currently, there's 3 ways to get hydrogen in large enough quantities to power vehicles. natural gas, coal, and electric.

the current prevailing way to get hydrogen is through natural gas-- so why not use CNG, and skip the middle man? yes, hydrogen is cleaner to the end user, but what are we burning to create that steam to convert the natural gas to hydrogen? it's the electric vehicle coal-electric-generation problem, just with a conveniently-ignorable twist.

of course, coal is coal, and has more environmental issues than we've got sticks to shake at it.

and then there's using electricity via electrolysis, but cites higher final cost, and availability of green energy sources(i believe we're already working towards this goal globally, so i consider this less of an issue)--this is the same issue with electric cars, and again, why not skip the middle man and just use the electricity to directly power vehicles?

i'm not against alternative energy, i just don't see how hydrogen benefits us at it's current production requirements when we have to burn or modify existing energy sources that can be used directly in their normal form, and are already cleaner than gasoline/diesel, or worse, fuel oil..

[EAGLE5]

I really don't see many cases where CNG beats hybrid or BEV.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by soundman98

...

i'm not against alternative energy, i just don't see how hydrogen benefits us at it's current production requirements when we have to burn or modify existing energy sources that can be used directly in their normal form, and are already cleaner than gasoline/diesel, or worse, fuel oil..

BEVs have the same problem. The energy to power them has to come from somewhere. The difference with a 'fillable' vehicle is that you don't have to lug a very heavy battery around with you. Reducing mass in vehicles is always a good thing.

Also, a power plant burning hydrocarbons is sooooooo much more efficient than the equivalent output in car engines.

[Ultramaroon]

Picked up a sack of masa to make some tortillas. Mmmmm...

[soundman98]

so if i brought up corn-fed beef, does that mean steaks will be on the menu tomorrow?