More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Absolute measures are pointless in this particular discussion. Why was this coating ever approved at the original thickness anyway when it's clearly better (in some way) at the new thickness? An incremental improvement indicates that the original product was good enough for then, but not for now.

Also, a vehicle design has many more degrees of freedom than a brake rotor coating design has. Far more uncertainty in the design/trade space leads to changes in the specification as the design evolves.

Yes specs change. You are missing the point of the discussion that the original spec was just "good enough because we don't have time to do better".

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yes specs change. You are missing the point of the discussion that the original spec was just "good enough because we don't have time to do better".

To me, every technological achievement is "good enough because we don't have time to do better" lol.

Anyway, I agree that they got it right the first time for the most part. I bought one at least. There is always room for incremental improvement, and I hope the second generation (if there is one) takes an evolutionary approach as opposed to revolutionary. That being said, Toyobaru is going to need to provide some improvement in performance if they want my upgrade money. I already have a paid-off gen 1 lol.

[WolfpackS2k]

1st gen was designed with the possibility of a convertible model at some point. That never happened. Seems pretty obvious to me that if the 2nd gen is designed strictly as a coupe (which it should) there's some low hanging weight savings fruit right there.

Turbo seems highly unlikely. My expectations for a second gen are optimistic, but I feel they're still realistic/reasonable. That being, less than 100 lb weight gain and 230-240hp from a NA FA24. On flip side, if they stick with the 2.0 liter engine I'd be happy with a minimal (<10hp) power boost if curb weight is kept in check.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spuds

To me, every technological achievement is "good enough because we don't have time to do better" lol.

Anyway, I agree that they got it right the first time for the most part. I bought one at least. There is always room for incremental improvement, and I hope the second generation (if there is one) takes an evolutionary approach as opposed to revolutionary. That being said, Toyobaru is going to need to provide some improvement in performance if they want my upgrade money. I already have a paid-off gen 1 lol.

I think we are on different pages about what the "time" is.
I would agree that they may say it is good enough "at this time". Not because of "we don't have time". If the target spec is X and they can only get to M due to time constraints is not the same as getting to X even though you know that a Y may be better but isn't feasible at that point.
Compromises are indeed made in design but they are usually more cost or production efficiently driven than "we were on a deadline and couldn't do more so just stopped there".

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

1st gen was designed with the possibility of a convertible model at some point. That never happened. Seems pretty obvious to me that if the 2nd gen is designed strictly as a coupe (which it should) there's some low hanging weight savings fruit right there.

Turbo seems highly unlikely. My expectations for a second gen are optimistic, but I feel they're still realistic/reasonable. That being, less than 100 lb weight gain and 230-240hp from a NA FA24. On flip side, if they stick with the 2.0 liter engine I'd be happy with a minimal (<10hp) power boost if curb weight is kept in check.

No it wasn't. There is nothing to support that anyplace. The only people that went down that road were the clickbait press. The development article from Toyota makes it very clear it was always designed strictly as a coupe. Stiffness was even why they went with a trunk not a hatch. Doubt there is the low hanging fruit that people seem to think there is.


The stripped down Japan only RC version weighed 2,624 pounds. That is without most of the things that people feel they "must have" now.

[WolfpackS2k]

Toyota claims it is further evaluating how going topless can impact the performance, balance, weight, aerodynamics, and rigidity of the GT 86. But it somewhat paradoxically also states that the car was designed with development of a cabriolet in mind from the start.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...and-info-news/

I mean...this seemed pretty substantial at the time. (Also note, I think/thought an open top FT86 is a horrible idea).

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...and-info-news/

I mean...this seemed pretty substantial at the time. (Also note, I think/thought an open top FT86 is a horrible idea).

Nah. That does not say in any official form the car was built to be a convertible from the start. If it had then they would not have been "evaluating how going topless can impact the performance, balance, weight, aerodynamics, and rigidity of the GT 86". They would have know this already. Unless of course they just threw some random stuff on in case they wanted to make a convertible. With the thought that went into every little detail that just doesn't make sense.
This is a classic case of the press putting words into their mouth and people believing it came from Toyota. The development story makes it very clear that they were designing a coupe from the start.

[86MLR]

Web results
NRMA calls for ban on sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2030 - ABC ...
https://www.abc.net.au › news

I'm wondering how the above is effecting the design and plsnning.

Will Toyota spend big when the goal posts are changing, soon.

Should be interesting for passenger cars over the next 5 to 10 years.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Web results
NRMA calls for ban on sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2030 - ABC ...
https://www.abc.net.au › news

I'm wondering how the above is effecting the design and plsnning.

Will Toyota spend big when the goal posts are changing, soon.

Should be interesting for passenger cars over the next 5 to 10 years.

That's one more model cycle away. I'm betting plugin hybrids become mainstream in New car sales in the next 5 years, then full electric. Most people won't go from an ICE only to full electric. Range anxiety, even if unfounded, is real.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Web results
NRMA calls for ban on sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2030 - ABC ...
https://www.abc.net.au › news

I'm wondering how the above is effecting the design and plsnning.

Will Toyota spend big when the goal posts are changing, soon.

Should be interesting for passenger cars over the next 5 to 10 years.

I love how a single alternative propulsion system just barely becomes viable, and everyone is losing their sh!t and attempting to entirely abandon internal combustion.

It's like CNG isn't an option, or the concept of having more than one propulsion tech is a crime of some sort.

I don't hate electric, it makes me monies for car parts, but i don't believe a single solution of any sort is the best answer like everyone makes it out to be.

Never forget, in the 70's, everyone thought there were zero drawbacks to smoking, lead paint, or abestos.

[86MLR]

It's well above my rank, but, isn't the battery powered cars using coal fired or nuclear plants?

Ack Hydro power, but that is limited.

In some areas of Australia we can barely keep the lights and aircon on at night during summer, I wonder what the added usage from the mollionsof cars that are put on charge every night.

I'm not against Ev's, I'm just curious about the thought process and logistics involved.

I vote ethanol fuel, but then the logistics in that are also somewhat troublesome, we barely have enough water for food crops and livestock.

Some serious thought, followed by serious regulations are going to be needed, people are gonna get upset because "I want to do what I want to do" mentalities are so strong in some people it verges on a mental disorder.

There is a easy way to negate all of this though, just cut the current population from 7.7 billion to a stable and sustainable 3 billion.


http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160...really-support

It ain't gonna happen though because people are inherently stupid.

Have a nice day

[Yoshoobaroo]

The electrical infrastructure in the 70s wouldn't be able to sustain our current demand either. Hehe. Current demand.

Anyway, coal and gas fired powerplants have their days numbered. They'll be around for a while, but renewables, especially wind and solar are very close to becoming cheaper per KWh than fossil fuel plants, depending on location they already are. Here in Florida solar farms are popping up all over the place in the last 3 years, and they're shutting down 2 gas powerplants for the biggest solar charged battery bank... in the world.

Point is that our electrical grids will adapt to the newer demand and alternative power sources keep dropping in cost every year. Fossil fuels are done for. In 50 years we'll have some niche market for fossil fuels but I'm hoping that'll be limited to recreational use and still regulated enough to be carbon neutral, maybe algae grown ethanol or something similar.

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

That's one more model cycle away. I'm betting plugin hybrids become mainstream in New car sales in the next 5 years, then full electric. Most people won't go from an ICE only to full electric. Range anxiety, even if unfounded, is real.

Range anxiety is not entirely unfounded. I am a salesman and need to do well over 300 miles a day frequently. For instance the western end of my territory is nearly 400 miles away and there are only a handful of charging stations along the way and none of them would be capable of charging any of the current generation of e-cars in a reasonable amount of time. This means that what should be a 6-7 hour trip becaomes a 10+ hour trip so the car can charge and it severely limits my productivity during the work day. I realize this is an extreme example but until long range and easily accessible, affordable, quick charging is available it's not valid for me.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

There is a easy way to negate all of this though, just cut the current population from 7.7 billion to a stable and sustainable 3 billion.

Wow, I had no idea Thanos drove an 86. Sorry to blow your cover, but welcome to the forum!



Myriad