[formerly sfw] cool gif thread

[DandoX]

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No you have it backwards. They break your shit and piss in your shoes because you don't pay enough attention to them. It is not that they hate you they want you to pay attention to them. They don't have the contempt you do.

I mostly agree. Over the decades, we've had a total of thirteen cats and six dogs in our household. Ten of the cats were here at once simultaneously; we used to raise Siamese, and they were just so cute we couldn't stand to let'em go... then, the first litter got to be almost a year old and.. well.... it got a LOT easier to re-home them!


Dogs - a half-coyote/farm-dog setter/retriever mix, three German Shepherds, a flat-coated retriever mix, and a chihuahua.



Cats - a black fluffy female barn cat, a short haired all black male siamese mix that looked and moved like a black panther and acted like a dog (my favorite cat of ALL time), male chocolate point siamese, female blue-point, one of their male kittens who was a blue-point but with white tipped tail and feet. Had all of those for their entire lives, which were all long except for my favorite cat who, sadly, was hit by a car when he was four years old. Also had seven of the other kittens for several months here and there.



Observations..


1. As you said, cats will "act out" if you do not obey them (you phrased it, "pay attention to them," and you're right, but there's a great degree of overlap ... )
2. Male cats are MUCH more predictable and social than female cats. MUCH.

3. Cats get mad at you and do break your stuff and pee on things you value the most, on purpose, and with malice of forethought. One of thousands of instances... I was practicing my violin and had the open case on the floor near me (I play professionally, it's a valuable instrument worth many thousands, and my case was worth about $350), and one of our cats decided that it was more deserving of my attention at that moment than my violin was, so it pee'd in my case. I was miffed. I cleaned the case as best I could, but ended up having to get another case. Even then, it would occasionally pee on the outside of the new case, just to let me know it was more important than my violin. This was one of the cats I LIKED!
4. Dogs do destroy stuff when neglected, but not because they're mad at you. Dogs don't get mad at you, just bored. Dogs, at least NONE of ours, were ever willfully destructive or even remotely aggressive to anyone in our family. Because they (meaning the German Shepherds, mostly) are so much larger and stronger than housecats, dogs DO require training and very responsible owners. Both species, cats and dogs alike, can be unpredictable and vicious. In my experience, dogs are MUCH more trainable, MUCH more predictable, and a lot easier to "read." They are also MUCH more interested in pleasing their owners, rather than having their owners please them as are cats.
5. Read that last sentence again.
6. Read it one more time.
7. A third time won't hurt.


I have a great love for all creatures, but dogs really occupy a very special place in my heart. The unconditional love and devotion our dogs have given us over almost four decades has been truly humbling. Our cats were fun, glad we had them, and the three males (siamese mix, and two full siamese) were also good companions. Honestly, I had very little use for the females other than they were nice to look at. They would go from purr to kill in a nanosecond, no warning. Never say never, but we've been cat-free for just over a decade after almost three decades with them total, and we will most likely remain so in the future. I can't imagine not having a canine companion.

[Sapphireho]

Dogs have owners, cats have staff.

[MuseChaser]

I got thinking about this dog/cat conundrum a bit more, and I think it might very well boil down to responsibility threshholds. Dogs do require a lot more care and responsibility, and make spontaneous traveling a lot more difficult. That might be part of the reason that cats are becoming increasingly popular as household companions; they don't "interfere" with their owner's "lifestyle" as much as a dog does out of necessity. Younger folks seem increasingly less interested in having children, perhaps out of a similar desire to not have to alter their lifestyles, and cats may be more attractive to them too. It sure is the case for a lot of friends and family I know.

For us, having kids was just about the only thing I've ever done that was of lasting importance, and I can't imagine leaving this world without having left behind our great children.

Our dogs, certainly, aren't going to have a lasting impact on the world, but they sure all made an lasting impact on us and were worth EVERY second we devoted to them, times a hundredfold.

[echo419]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

edit for space.

cats = American women

dogs = European women.

at least in my exp.

[qcbaker]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

1. As you said, cats will "act out" if you do not obey them (you phrased it, "pay attention to them," and you're right, but there's a great degree of overlap ... )

While cats do act out, its almost never for the reasons you expect. You're projecting human logic onto an animal that does not possess the capacity for such things.

2. Male cats are MUCH more predictable and social than female cats. MUCH.

Depends on whether or not the cats are fixed, environment they were raised in, etc. Too many outside factors to make a blanket statement like this.

3. Cats get mad at you and do break your stuff and pee on things you value the most, on purpose, and with malice of forethought.

Categorically false. Again, you're projecting human emotions/logic onto an animal. Cats break stuff and cause mischief because they're under-stimulated, not because they're "mad at you". You acknowledge this about dogs but won't do 10 seconds of googling to see that its the exact same thing here? Make your cat a window ledge or put a cat tree near where they can see outside. Or, simply play with them more.

As for the peeing, again that is never "malice of forethought". Cats pee out of the litter box for many reasons, malice is not one of them. Most of the time its one of two possibilities:

1. The cat feels that their territory is threatened somehow and is marking their territory . They don't care whether the shoes are your favorite, or even that they're yours (or even the fact that they're shoes at all). If they're peeing on them, its because they represent some sort of territorial issue, either by scent, location, or some unknown factor.

2. They cannot comfortably use the litter box. With declawed cats, its usually as simple as the litter hurting the cats paws. But sometimes it can be more complicated. Scented litter can induce territory anxiety in some cats. Sometimes the box is in a place where a dog can get to it and now the litterbox smells like dog. There are infinite possibilities.

Where a cat chooses to relieve themselves represents so much more to a cat than just a toilet. The scents, sounds, location, all of them have important meanings to a cat. The litter box is the cornerstone of a cat's territory.

And their instinct to use it is STRONG. If a cat is peeing or pooping outside of it, there's a damn good reason (to the cat).

One of thousands of instances... I was practicing my violin and had the open case on the floor near me (I play professionally, it's a valuable instrument worth many thousands, and my case was worth about $350), and one of our cats decided that it was more deserving of my attention at that moment than my violin was, so it pee'd in my case. I was miffed. I cleaned the case as best I could, but ended up having to get another case. Even then, it would occasionally pee on the outside of the new case, just to let me know it was more important than my violin. This was one of the cats I LIKED!

Projection, projection everywhere. I'm not Jackson Galaxy and I don't know your entire situation so I'm not gonna speculate about the exact reason your cat peed in your violin case. Its overwhelmingly likely that there is another, less immediately obvious reason than "he wanted my attention." But, lets say it was just to get your attention. But if that's the case, is it because the only time you paid attention to it is when it pees somewhere you don't want it to, and it doesn't know how else to communicate its intentions to you? Why is it trying to get your attention?

What I'm getting at is that there are a billion reasons that your cat does what they do. And like I said, I don't know the full story so I'm not gonna speculate as to what that might be, but what I can tell you for certain is that you are misunderstanding your cats behavior if you think it's as simple as "malice" or "attention".

4. Dogs do destroy stuff when neglected, but not because they're mad at you. Dogs don't get mad at you, just bored. Dogs, at least NONE of ours, were ever willfully destructive or even remotely aggressive to anyone in our family. Because they (meaning the German Shepherds, mostly) are so much larger and stronger than housecats, dogs DO require training and very responsible owners. Both species, cats and dogs alike, can be unpredictable and vicious. In my experience, dogs are MUCH more trainable, MUCH more predictable, and a lot easier to "read." They are also MUCH more interested in pleasing their owners, rather than having their owners please them as are cats.
5. Read that last sentence again.
6. Read it one more time.
7. A third time won't hurt.

Its kind of wild to me that you'd make this point about dog boredom but assume that cat misbehavior is because of "malice"? Dogs behavior syncs up with humans because we created them. Dogs were pack animals to start with, and we bred them so that pack bond grew stronger and stronger. Their behavior patterns are a product of 10,000 years of selective breeding and co-evolution with humans as the pack leaders. Dogs are inseparable from humans. Like you said, they live to please us. They are no longer wild animals.

Cats are a different story. Cats are much less affected by our behavior in that regard. Sure, their bodies have been shaped by our breeding efforts as well, but at the end of the day, they aren't pack animals. They don't do the pack bond the way dogs do. We've made them friendlier to us, sure but cats are still so much closer to just simply being wild animals that we happen to let live in our houses. And that difference is key here. Cat behavior is not something that has been shaped by bonds with humans the way dog behavior is. You need to adjust your perspective when talking about it way more than you do when talking about dogs.

Our cats were fun, glad we had them, and the three males (siamese mix, and two full siamese) were also good companions. Honestly, I had very little use for the females other than they were nice to look at. They would go from purr to kill in a nanosecond, no warning. Never say never, but we've been cat-free for just over a decade after almost three decades with them total, and we will most likely remain so in the future.

Look, I get it. You're a dog person:

I can't imagine not having a canine companion.

And that's fine. I love dogs too. They're great! But don't spread misinformation and try to demonize cats just because you're uneducated on the subject and don't understand them.

[echo419]

pretty sure saying that you can't imagine not having a dog is a way to "demonize" cats....

[qcbaker]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

I got thinking about this dog/cat conundrum a bit more, and I think it might very well boil down to responsibility threshholds. Dogs do require a lot more care and responsibility, and make spontaneous traveling a lot more difficult. That might be part of the reason that cats are becoming increasingly popular as household companions; they don't "interfere" with their owner's "lifestyle" as much as a dog does out of necessity. Younger folks seem increasingly less interested in having children, perhaps out of a similar desire to not have to alter their lifestyles, and cats may be more attractive to them too. It sure is the case for a lot of friends and family I know.

You might be on to something there.

For us, having kids was just about the only thing I've ever done that was of lasting importance, and I can't imagine leaving this world without having left behind our great children.

"Legacy" is of great importance to some people, and of little importance to others. All comes down to what you value more.

Our dogs, certainly, aren't going to have a lasting impact on the world, but they sure all made an lasting impact on us and were worth EVERY second we devoted to them, times a hundredfold.

I feel the same about my cats lol.

[qcbaker]

Originally Posted by echo419

pretty sure saying that you can't imagine not having a dog is a way to "demonize" cats....

Saying "Cats get mad at you and do break your stuff and pee on things you value the most, on purpose, and with malice of forethought." is though.

[echo419]

Originally Posted by qcbaker

Saying "Cats get mad at you and do break your stuff and pee on things you value the most, on purpose, and with malice of forethought." is though.

then you should have said that about that quote. when you quote a comment then comment on it yourself it looks like you are referring to that comment which you quoted.

[qcbaker]

Originally Posted by echo419

then you should have said that about that quote. when you quote a comment then comment on it yourself it looks like you are referring to that comment which you quoted.

Lol fair enough I guess. To me, that sentence reads more like a response to the whole post rather than just to that quote, but I can see how it could be read the way you say.

Either way, with these posts its pretty obvious what i meant now lol.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

I can't imagine not having a canine companion.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by qcbaker

....
Its kind of wild to me that you'd make this point about dog boredom but assume that cat misbehavior is because of "malice"? Dogs behavior syncs up with humans because we created them. Dogs were pack animals to start with, and we bred them so that pack bond grew stronger and stronger. Their behavior patterns are a product of 10,000 years of selective breeding and co-evolution with humans as the pack leaders. Dogs are inseparable from humans. Like you said, they live to please us. They are no longer wild animals.

Cats are a different story. Cats are much less affected by our behavior in that regard. Sure, their bodies have been shaped by our breeding efforts as well, but at the end of the day, they aren't pack animals. They don't do the pack bond the way dogs do. We've made them friendlier to us, sure but cats are still so much closer to just simply being wild animals that we happen to let live in our houses. And that difference is key here. Cat behavior is not something that has been shaped by bonds with humans the way dog behavior is. You need to adjust your perspective when talking about it way more than you do when talking about dogs....

Hey, man, I certainly meant no offense, and the "with malice of forethought" phrase was certainly and obviously toungue-firmly-in-cheek, or so I thought and meant it to be. Animals, dogs nor cats, certainly aren't sitting around hatching plots for household domination.



The part of your response I quoted above is EXACTLY what I'm talking about... we completely agree. Personally, I would much rather have a creature living in my house that is inseparable from me and lives to please me (and I him in return), views me as the pack leader, and is no longer a wild animal, to use many of your words, than I would something that is " much closer to just simply being wild animals that we happen to let live in our houses."



I relayed my experiences with my dogs and cats. Access to clean litter boxes was NEVER a problem, we kept our cats in excellent health, regular vet visits/checkups/vaccinations, the issues happened with cats who were fixed, not fixed, had their claws, de-clawed. Dude, I'm like the biggest animal lover out there. No hatred for cats at all, much less demonization, on my part. It's a drag you took it that way. Also a tad offensive (lol.... tying in what that OTHER thread that has offended so many of us) is your subtle implication that I did not care for our cats and that explains every bit of bad behavior we experienced. You did repeatedly say "you have no way of knowing, but"... so I know you tried to temper that implication... but that's kind of like, "No, you're not fat... I'm just sayin'....."....


Yes, I like dogs more. A lot more. Doesn't mean I hate cats.



Anyway... cool that you prefer cats. No worries. I trust it's equally cool that I prefer dogs.
Not sure why some cat folks get so defensive about their cats. I can certainly understand why a lot of folks aren't crazy about dogs, and/or don't want one. That's cool.

[MuseChaser]