Is weight no longer an issue in sports cars?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gtengr

The majority of the weight gain in modern cars is in the physical dimensions. Tech/crash standards/emissions are overrated when it comes to why sporty cars are gaining weight imo. Look at the 2001 M3 vs. the 2019 M2. They have roughly the same physical dimensions and weigh roughly the same while the M2 adds the weight of turbochargers/intercooling. The"extra" weight of modern crash standards, emissions, and comfort items appears almost negligible.

The physical dimensions are a direct result of the crash standards. You have the cause and effect reversed. In order to meet all the North American standards the car has to be bloated a bit. This is why all the Kei cars in Asia can exist there but not come here. Or at least not come here in the same form. You can not just dismiss the crash standards in relation to size and weight they are the direct cause.

[Go Frogs]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

I'm following reviews of the new 911 992 (I love 911s and always considering one) and I am so saddened that now the 911 is no longer a car I would want to buy because of how heavy it's gotten, yet reviews are not even mentioning this.

Weight is no longer a "priority" in the grand spec sheet of things.

• Today, people are all about AA & ACP (weight of the car is the furthest thing from their minds)
• Today, people are all about autonomous (safety) driving aides
• Today, people are about looking at fuel economy and CVTs
• Today, automakers think everyone wants to haul around 7 or more people.

Weight is but a by-product of all of our advancements in automotive tech, and this applies to economy cars, sports cars, GT cars, super cars, etc. Yes, some generations of cars/trucks are lighter than their predecessor in the 100s of pounds, but still heavy nonetheless.

Carbon fiber is cheaper than a decade ago; however, it is still expensive (thanks airline industry) and is not the end-all-be-all material of choice for public road cars.

Aluminum is great, and is being used more and more in cars and trucks, but it is still considered expensive and is used mainly in high-profit margin vehicles (yes, there are notable exceptions).

People like to be in metal zen capsules and want the harshness of the outside world to stay outside. This adds weight.

Weight is no longer a priority. Sure, it might be a concern, but shiney fake exhaust tips are more important because they are shiney and add to the design element of the car.

On the flip side, people may see weight as a "safety" think and people gravitate to the SUV/Truck to be more "safe" - more mass -> more safe.

I applaud the safety our modern cars have today and the advancements in the internal combustion engine which are becoming more and more efficient.

You would think that we would all be driving around in fiberglass or plastic bodied cars by now, but it just isn't so. Steel, or metal for that matter, has advantages, and with those advantages, comes a little bit of weight.

It doesn't help that every car category is growing in size too.


How heavy are motorcycles these days? Are they lighter, heavier, or about the same as a decade ago? I know the trend is more smaller displacement bikes, but they can still be kinda heavy.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Go Frogs

Weight is no longer a "priority" in the grand spec sheet of things.

[

To the manufacturers weight is number one in the grand scheme of things. From the smallest Smart car to the largest Freightliner weight is a primary characteristic and constantly targeted for reduction. It is a great way to meet their mileage and emissions restrictions and actually get's more important to them every single year.

[new2subaru]

Crossovers are great vehicles for the masses. They are very good at being utilitarian and being comfortable at the same time. They're very functional vehicles. They're getting lighter and lighter all the time.



Not many people are toting around kids in an 86.

[BlueWhelan]

This is a public forum...for a specific topic. Get the discussion back on track gentlemen, and leave the generational warfare out of it.


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by BlueWhelan

This is a public forum...for a specific topic. Get the discussion back on track gentlemen, and leave the generational warfare out of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[86MLR]

Stupid pups

[new2subaru]

There's less than a handful of sports cars being made under 3,000lbs. What are we supposed to talk about?

Obviously it can be done and obviously it's not because the market is tiny...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

There's less than a handful of sports cars being made under 3,000lbs. What are we supposed to talk about?

Obviously it can be done and obviously it's not because the market is tiny...

Exactly. If the market was there for 100 different sub 3,000lb cars at the prices it would cost to produce them then there would be 100 available. The tiny market that would buy them simply can not support that sort production.

[p1l0t]

Most people want the big TQ numbers. We are minority. Wanting a car that's a fun CAR. Like in and of itself is like a foreign concept to people. I like the idea of a street legal go kart.

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[C4RBON]

Even among "sports car" owners, driving enthusiasts who value low weight are in the minority. One look at sports car marketing material shows what people value: power, 0-60 times, 1/4 mile times, Nurburgring times, tech, mpg, safety features, etc.


Advances in tires, suspension, brake materials, engines, transmissions, and aero are resulting in cars that perform better than ever, in the metrics that most people care about. It is no longer necessary for a car to be "light" in order to be fast.


Low weight enables better performance in every metric, but every metric is not equal in the eyes of the masses. Manufacturers build cars to sell to as many people as possible, so design them to perform well in the metrics that people care about.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by JIM THEO

As we talk about weight let's see how BRZ/GT86 compares with Alpine A110 and Porsche Cayman in "moose test" (slalom at 80Km/h).
Bear in mind GT86 has the poor 17" Michelins while A110 18" Pilot Sport 4 and Porsche Cayman the much wider 235F-265R/45/18 Continental or PS, so who you believe wins here?


BRZ/GT86:

I can't thank you enough for this link. I never saw this before and it delivers a clear message.

I sure hope Toyota/Subaru continue the FT86 much in the same line as what Mazda did with the MX-5. I'll put my money down on that car.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Are you aware about the fire on a pre-production Alpine press car in the Monte Carlo race? Complexity and exotic scale isn't necessarily a good thing.

Here are the details and a video of the fire:
https://www.motor1.com/news/238433/a...ar-fire-video/

Yes Subaru or Mazda are cheaper brands and in many cases will use a simpler manufacturing approach, but I would never imagine a press car from them catching fire even if it is not "officially" a production car. And even on the performance area and the slalom results posted a few pages back, it looks that the approach followed by the 86/BRZ works really good even with the stock tires!

No but my point about referencing the Alpine A110 is that it's the only recent sports car release that bucks the trend and goes down in weight. The Mazda MX-5 is also in this very very small category.

Of course the FT86 is a very good example but it's not a recent car (Released I think 2012) but this stage it's actually sadly considered an old car. I just bought one last year but have to admit I won't say no to a newer release of the FT86, doubtful as I am that it would happen.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by gtengr

The majority of the weight gain in modern cars is in the physical dimensions. Tech/crash standards/emissions are overrated when it comes to why sporty cars are gaining weight imo. Look at the 2001 M3 vs. the 2019 M2. They have roughly the same physical dimensions and weigh roughly the same while the M2 adds the weight of turbochargers/intercooling. The"extra" weight of modern crash standards, emissions, and comfort items appears almost negligible.

I feel like this is a very strong point here. I have the same intuitive thinking about this as well. Cars are just getting unnecessarily gigantic. It's OK for an SUV but why does a sports car need to be a behemoth?