Drove a Turbo BRZ today

[86MLR]

I went looking for boost a while ago, I went for a spin in a 86 with a sprintex, later a AVO, I was sold pretty much straight away.

Then my real research started and I focused on the Harrop SC.

Why Harrop

Good for daily, less heat to deal with, looks clean.

The main point I looked at initially was reliability

1. Gearbox rated to 250nm

2. OEM engine reliability is questionable at/over 200 killerwasps

3. Temp control is easy enough

Therefore:

For me to be happy that I have a well engineered build I would require

1. Built engine

2. Build gearbox (at least the syncro kit that helps it not eat 4th)

Conclusion: Due to the inherent weakness of the gearbox and engine, the cost involved to put some good and reliable power down, is hard to justify.

My intial hasty budget calcs had me at over 30k. I did look at Holinger, but 20k, for notaracecar?? Yeah na.

Can it be done cheaper, hell yes, but it would not be what "I" would call well engineered IRT reliability.

So, in the end, I have full exhaust and tune, coincidentally, I've spent over twice the amount of money of my exhaust and tune cost on suspension.

Handling and braking improvements should be Pri 1 anyway.

The car handles really really well, but for power, it would struggle to pull the skin of custard.

I wish the FA20 was more like the Toyota or Nissan blocks of old, where you could double the power and not worry about lunching the engine or box.

Disclaimer: If you don't really push your car you might be fine, me, I thrash the Bejesus out of my cars.

Opinions may vary

[evoto86]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I went looking for boost a while ago, I went for a spin in a 86 with a sprintex, later a AVO, I was sold pretty much straight away.

Then my real research started and I focused on the Harrop SC.

Why Harrop

Good for daily, less heat to deal with, looks clean.

The main point I looked at initially was reliability

1. Gearbox rated to 250nm

2. OEM engine reliability is questionable at/over 200 killerwasps

3. Temp control is easy enough

Therefore:

For me to be happy that I have a well engineered build I would require

1. Built engine

2. Build gearbox (at least the syncro kit that helps it not eat 4th)

Conclusion: Due to the inherent weakness of the gearbox and engine, the cost involved to put some good and reliable power down, is hard to justify.

My intial hasty budget calcs had me at over 30k. I did look at Holinger, but 20k, for notaracecar?? Yeah na.

Can it be done cheaper, hell yes, but it would not be what "I" would call well engineered IRT reliability.

So, in the end, I have full exhaust and tune, coincidentally, I've spent over twice the amount of money of my exhaust and tune cost on suspension.

Handling and braking improvements should be Pri 1 anyway.

The car handles really really well, but for power, it would struggle to pull the skin of custard.

I wish the FA20 was more like the Toyota or Nissan blocks of old, where you could double the power and not worry about lunching the engine or box.

Disclaimer: If you don't really push your car you might be fine, me, I thrash the Bejesus out of my cars.

Opinions may vary

That's what I have concluded as well you can force induction but if your keeping the car long term your paying for a Rebuild down the line and it could be in 6months or 4 years there is no way to tell.

Unless you have money to burn its fine, but a lot of us that own this car are young adults that need to invest wisely so we cant justify such a build. At the end of the day I would rather get 120 000 miles on my NA 86 whilst thrashing it and having some fun in it then spending a large amount of cash on forced induction that might not make the car that much more enjoyable then a simply tuned bolt on 86 with good tyres and suspension.


If you don't want to be disappointed don't buy the car and not live around canyon roads. Because 200HP in this chassis is enough to have a good time.

[johl]

I think a lot of Americans will struggle to interpret our Aussie jargon but I completely agree with your statement.

I’m getting a turbo on my car this week but I’m only adding a mild amount of power. It will be less than 300hp just because beyond that the $ per hp just makes it not worth it. I’m still spending 10k on the turbo kit and supporting mods but I’d need to spend at least double that if I was wanting to add a further 50hp reliably. The diminishing gains are just not worth it for me

[Hades]

I'm not buying the hype on F/I with this car. Seems like the main people hyping the F/I solutions own/drive faster cars. I feel like with the cost of a well setup F/I you could've just had a faster car to begin with and less maintenance issues. Just my $0.02.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Hades

I'm not buying the hype on F/I with this car. Seems like the main people hyping the F/I solutions own/drive faster cars. I feel like with the cost of a well setup F/I you could've just had a faster car to begin with and less maintenance issues. Just my $0.02.

Yes and no, it's tricky.

I wanted a RWD Manual 4 banger that handles well, or well after some mods anyway.

The 86 was a no brainer, but it could do wirh some more power the thing is gutless.

Fun in the twisties, but that's it, trying to overtake on the street is a epic adventure, drop it down and cane it and you might, just might overtake.

I'm of the opinion that if it had another 50kw it would be perfect, another 100kw, as I've seen, is just on awesome.

[churchx]

I'm more then happy with "that's it". And if i'll find difficulty overtaking someone on public roads with dropping some gears down, probably because that someone going 1.5-2x times posted speed limit, thus i doubt i'll need to overtake :P.

[evoto86]

Originally Posted by johl

I think a lot of Americans will struggle to interpret our Aussie jargon but I completely agree with your statement.

I’m getting a turbo on my car this week but I’m only adding a mild amount of power. It will be less than 300hp just because beyond that the $ per hp just makes it not worth it. I’m still spending 10k on the turbo kit and supporting mods but I’d need to spend at least double that if I was wanting to add a further 50hp reliably. The diminishing gains are just not worth it for me

I hope to hear your opinion if the 10k was worth 300hp give or take. Is that your AE86 ? I have a KE70 im trying to find time to build.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by churchx

I'm more then happy with "that's it". And if i'll find difficulty overtaking someone on public roads with dropping some gears down, probably because that someone going 1.5-2x times posted speed limit, thus i doubt i'll need to overtake :P.

Local to me are alot of 2 lane roads, posted speed limit 100kph.

Some people will sit at 80kph on it, so when there's broken lines (legal spot to overtake), and it's safe, I overtake.

I will usually be plodding along in 5/6th, when the time comes to overtake it's straight to 3rd and mash the pedal.........and then wait....... hoping that the truck/caravan or car doesn't decide to, at that very moment, speed up.

Or I could just sit behind them for 20km waiting for a overtaking lane.....being overtaken by everone else joining our conga line in the mean time.

I'm use to slow cars, that handle well, my 1999 1.8 MX5 had roughly the same power to weight, albeit the Mazda was 19 years older and weighed less than my 86, I sold my MX5 when I stopped doing alot of track days because as a daily it was pretty average.

Don't get me wrong, I love the way my car handles, but, and it's a big but,....lol....the powertrain is sorely lacking.

Yes the car is a budget (read: cheap) sports car, and sacrifices were made to keep the cost down (could they have found a cheaper/weaker gearbox?), hell the main design of the OEM conrod was to enable easy installation at the factory, whos brilliant idea was it to have rods offset like that, it's not just the twins there though, the WRX has the same idiotic design, good one Subaru, no wonder they bend when you lean on them, they bloody well start bent.

Anyways, as I've said, it's a fun car, but it will cost you the purchase price again if you want any real power gain.

Why do I have one, what other new RWD manual coupes can you get for under 40kAUD, none.

I still wish it had a better box and at least straight conrods.

Or, better still a new and improved 3GSE Black top that I can do basic mods on and tune and a V160 or simular (something not made out of glass).

But thats just me.

Yes, I'm a old hoon.

[Juzzotec]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Don't get me wrong, I love the way my car handles, but, and it's a big but,....lol....the powertrain is sorely lacking.

Yes the car is a budget (read: cheap) sports car, and sacrifices were made to keep the cost down (could they have found a cheaper/weaker gearbox?), hell the main design of the OEM conrod was to enable easy installation at the factory, whos brilliant idea was it to have rods offset like that, it's not just the twins there though, the WRX has the same idiotic design, good one Subaru, no wonder they bend when you lean on them, they bloody well start bent.

Anyways, as I've said, it's a fun car, but it will cost you the purchase price again if you want any real power gain.

Why do I have one, what other new RWD manual coupes can you get for under 40kAUD, none.

I still wish it had a better box and at least straight conrods.

Or, better still a new and improved 3GSE Black top that I can do basic mods on and tune and a V160 or simular (something not made out of glass).

But thats just me.

Yes, I'm a old hoon.

You have made a lot of good points in this thread, my thoughts exactly.
NA is the way I choose to keep my 86, it's just not worth pushing this platform anything beyond basic bolt ons. I do get the urge to... but I back out when I consider the reliability.

An updated 3SGE would of been awesome

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I'm of the opinion that if it had another 50kw it would be perfect, another 100kw, as I've seen, is just on awesome.

Drop 100kg and add a header and tune. That`ll be the equivalent of 50kw.

[Ultramaroon]

The angle at which the end caps fit to the connecting rods are not for initial assembly. They are an ingenious service feature and definitely not a weak link. I applaud Fuji engineers for going there.


Now, the diff mounts?.. Grrr... atrocious.

[mrg666]

Congratulations for your decision of not going FI, guys! And you should really feel good about doing the right thing with your cars.

Did you see this, btw?

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Congratulations for your decision of not going FI, guys! And you should really feel good about doing the right thing with your cars.

Did you see this, btw?

It's got nothing to do with doing the right thing, the car is screaming for more power, it's just a pity that the drivetrain and powerplant are inherently weak.

Sure, if you drive around getting on and off the gas for short pulls you might be fine, but from my experience and research, when you track them or up the power to much it's just a matter of time before you lunch something.

Hell, cars in the local T86RS are eating engines and gearboxes with only a exhaust and tune.

The video???what point???

Apart from being auto , and the batman thing , it's just another boosted 86 isn't it, or has it got a built motor and something special about it, a bolt on SC and a theme is not what I call special.

Opinions may vary.

Meanwhile...........

[falcon_wizard]

Trying to look at it objectively, It would obviously be nice for people that like to mod their car severely and track the 86 that it had been overdesigned to reliably handle more than twice as much power than it actually has. But in today’s business and price competiteveness environment, is this realistic ? Rarely would we have the financial leeway to put this level of design margin on a design. It’s not clear to me that the car could be competitively priced if those extra costs for beefier trannies and engines had been included, even they are not needed that most buyers. How much room is there for the price to increase without lowering sales to a point where they can’t keep the car in the lineup ?

Are there other recent car designs in that price range that can reliably handle twice as much power than stock on a track without requiring a substantial amount of upgrades ? I was talking to people with actual STI based race builds probably worth over 100k$, and they do overhaul the built engine every 30hrs of racing time. So reliability has a different definition at those levels of performance ...

I am wondering if the fact that the 86 chassis has so much potential automatically raises our expectation of what a stock car should have been designed to take. We are fortunate to have such a chassis available to us at such a low price and with so many options. In a way, its blessing is its curse... :-)