Tuning AVCS without a dyno (AVCS for Gruppe-S header post 12 and 24)

[Tor]

Originally Posted by craneom

Tor, are you still running these tables? What other adjustments have you made? I am using these exact tables coupled with some MAF scaling adjustments and my Gruppe-S header. Below 3k under too much throttle or load it will buck and stumble. It pulls -0.65 FLKC under WOT between 3800 and 4000 rpm and almost seems like it breaks up above 7k. Not sure if it's my MAF scale or what... '13 BRZ.

Yes, I still run them. I've made a million other adjustments, but it shouldn't influence the ideal AVCS settings much. E.g. these tables should work better for the Gruppe-S than the OFT tables, in an otherwise unmodified OFT tune.

Without a log, it's difficult to say what is causing your problems. If you want to check, you could just change back to the OFT AVCS on your current tune. Bucking and stumbling doesn't sound AVCS related though. Sounds more like fuel or timing problems. Under which conditions does it occur?

I had a car with bucking issues under relatively constant low rpm and load. It turned out to be too much transient ignition retard on small throttle changes so the timing was retarded too much and caused the bucking. Not saying this is your problem at all, just saying there can be a lot of reasons and the only way to figure it out is to log.

Not sure what you mean with "breaks up"?

[craneom]

Originally Posted by Tor

Yes, I still run them. I've made a million other adjustments, but it shouldn't influence the ideal AVCS settings much. E.g. these tables should work better for the Gruppe-S than the OFT tables, in an otherwise unmodified OFT tune.

Without a log, it's difficult to say what is causing your problems. If you want to check, you could just change back to the OFT AVCS on your current tune. Bucking and stumbling doesn't sound AVCS related though. Sounds more like fuel or timing problems. Under which conditions does it occur?

I had a car with bucking issues under relatively constant low rpm and load. It turned out to be too much transient ignition retard on small throttle changes so the timing was retarded too much and caused the bucking. Not saying this is your problem at all, just saying there can be a lot of reasons and the only way to figure it out is to log.

Not sure what you mean with "breaks up"?

I'm not trying to hijack your thread but here's where I'm at...

I suppose by "breaking up" I mean stumbling and loss of power, but it almost like it has hit a limiter, not as if it dies off, it just bogs. I have since returned to the OFT v4.03 map with only the IAM changed to 1 and nothing else. Below 3.5k, under medium load (above maybe 1.0v MAF) and under several other situations as well. I have noticed that the Intake VVT channel is freaking out in the logs and makes no sense, while the exhaust follows what it should. In the second log you can see a misfire on cylinder 1 under these conditions where it's "breaking up." It has new spark plugs and wasn't doing it before or for the first 3k miles after. Under very hard driving, before switching back to the OFT tune, it threw a P0366 code for the bank 1 exhaust camshaft position sensor performance (only ever did it twice) and has not returned since switching back, but still has issues. I'm worried I might be falling victim to the timing gear/actuator/ECU issue that plagued so many '13s.



Log 1: https://datazap.me/u/craneom/stumbling?log=0&data=1


Log 2: https://datazap.me/u/craneom/stumbling?log=1&data=1


Crappy video where you can kind of hear it "breaking up":

I have had terrible luck with this car from the day I bought it, so I wouldn't be surprised if this turns into something serious.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by craneom

I'm not trying to hijack your thread but here's where I'm at...

I suppose by "breaking up" I mean stumbling and loss of power, but it almost like it has hit a limiter, not as if it dies off, it just bogs. I have since returned to the OFT v4.03 map with only the IAM changed to 1 and nothing else. Below 3.5k, under medium load (above maybe 1.0v MAF) and under several other situations as well. I have noticed that the Intake VVT channel is freaking out in the logs and makes no sense, while the exhaust follows what it should. In the second log you can see a misfire on cylinder 1 under these conditions where it's "breaking up." It has new spark plugs and wasn't doing it before or for the first 3k miles after. Under very hard driving, before switching back to the OFT tune, it threw a P0366 code for the bank 1 exhaust camshaft position sensor performance (only ever did it twice) and has not returned since switching back, but still has issues. I'm worried I might be falling victim to the timing gear/actuator/ECU issue that plagued so many '13s.



Log 1: https://datazap.me/u/craneom/stumbling?log=0&data=1


Log 2: https://datazap.me/u/craneom/stumbling?log=1&data=1


Crappy video where you can kind of hear it "breaking up":

I have had terrible luck with this car from the day I bought it, so I wouldn't be surprised if this turns into something serious.

The logs are from what? OFT tune? Modified OFT tune? Which version and which calid?

The reason for asking is that it doesn't look like v4.03. It looks like it's an old calid which for sure doesn't log intake AVCS correctly.

You have a CEL during the video.

This is definitely not related to these cam tables. You have some kind of hardware issue. The misfires could be caused by a broken coil pack. Cylinder 1 is usually the one that fails first. CEL for that is P351.

Read out any CELs, if nothing related to AVCS, log the AVCS with the v.4.03 tune and do a WOT pull from 2 to 5-6k rpm (or redline if you can without it misfiring). Check that they are actually outputting what they should from the tables.

[craneom]

Originally Posted by Tor

The logs are from what? OFT tune? Modified OFT tune? Which version and which calid?

The reason for asking is that it doesn't look like v4.03. It looks like it's an old calid which for sure doesn't log intake AVCS correctly.

You have a CEL during the video.

This is definitely not related to these cam tables. You have some kind of hardware issue. The misfires could be caused by a broken coil pack. Cylinder 1 is usually the one that fails first. CEL for that is P351.

Read out any CELs, if nothing related to AVCS, log the AVCS with the v.4.03 tune and do a WOT pull from 2 to 5-6k rpm (or redline if you can without it misfiring). Check that they are actually outputting what they should from the tables.

These are both logs from v4.03 modified with the supplied .xml file directly from OFT. The only modification is changing the intial IAM from 0.7 to 1.0.

CID is ZA1JA01C.

The CEL was flashing for misfires, but did not store a code and does not normally do that as I try to avoid driving under conditions which cause it. It has not stored any code other than P0366 which only ever came up twice and has not come back.

A 3rd gear WOT pull will misfire terribly from 2K-4K and most likely above 7k as well. I am perplexed because it has yet to store a misfire code or a coil pack code.

I will try and get the log this afternoon and see what happens. I will also most likely swap the coil to cylinder 3 and see if the misfire follows.

[craneom]

Alright here are two 3rd gear pulls and some idle and driving with small pulls.



First Pull to red-line: https://datazap.me/u/craneom/more-mi...s?log=0&data=1


Second pull to just shy of 7k: https://datazap.me/u/craneom/more-mi...s?log=1&data=1


Some idle and driving logs: https://datazap.me/u/craneom/more-mi...s?log=2&data=1

[Tor]

Originally Posted by craneom

Alright here are two 3rd gear pulls and some idle and driving with small pulls

You forgot to log the intake cam. V. 4.03 should log intake correctly. Maybe you need to update the OFT template file?

[craneom]

Originally Posted by Tor

You forgot to log the intake cam. V. 4.03 should log intake correctly. Maybe you need to update the OFT template file?

I didn’t bother logging the intake cam because it was still displaying incorrectly. I can try and wipe everything and go all the way back to stock and see what happens... I swapped the #1 and #2 ignition coils and the misfires did NOT follow. Under load while misfiring below 4K it threw the P0366 code twice this evening after clearing it out. I can pull the plug but I’m not sure thatll be the issue if it’s almost brand new. I’m not sure if a bad camshaft sensor would cause misfiring, but misfiring can cause that code to come up even if the sensor is fine.

[craneom]

I have gone all the way back to stock tune and the VVT log is still freaking out. ��

[Tor]

Originally Posted by craneom

I have gone all the way back to stock tune and the VVT log is still freaking out. ��

I don't know if OFT logs A01C correctly. But the v4.03 is A01G internally and should log it correctly.

If it throws P0366 continuously, I would have it looked at. I don't know how a broken sensor would affect the log output. Perhaps the reason for the crazy values?

[craneom]

Originally Posted by Tor

I don't know if OFT logs A01C correctly. But the v4.03 is A01G internally and should log it correctly.

If it throws P0366 continuously, I would have it looked at. I don't know how a broken sensor would affect the log output. Perhaps the reason for the crazy values?

I’m working on a full wipe of all tunes and software and a fresh install of OFM and the template file as well as fresh downloads of the v4.03 tunes.

I’m trying to avoid the stealership if possible due to financial deficits from recently being unemployed. It’s possible I had a hairline crack in that plug so I am going to replace it tonight. If that doesn’t work I’m resorting to swapping the cam position sensors from bank to bank and maybe even the actuators.

What I don’t understand about the bad sensor logic is that the code is for the exhaust cam sensor while the intake is the one bugging out in the logs.

[craneom]

I’ll end the thread jacking here and return to AVCS discussions after this post.

I flashed the car back to stock, disconnected the battery and completely wiped the tablet and my computer of tunes and definitions. I grabbed fresh v4.03 files and updated the tablet template. I again edited the Stage 2+ map to set the initial IAM to 1.0 and flashed the car.

In the mean time, I wiggled out the #1 plug and was in for a surprise. After only 5K miles, the ceramic was cracked in several places. I replaced it with another OEM Denso plug and fired it up with the fresh tune. It idled as smooth as glass. I then took it out for a spin to get it up to temp and do a few pulls; and has zero misfires or bogging/hesitation. Obviously it’ll take some miles before it relearned itself fully, but it’s much better.

Now, the strange behavior of the Intake VVT channel continues....

To return to the topic, what have you done to your tune regarding loads/load limits?

[Tor]

Originally Posted by craneom

In the mean time, I wiggled out the #1 plug and was in for a surprise. After only 5K miles, the ceramic was cracked in several places. I replaced it with another OEM Denso plug and fired it up with the fresh tune. It idled as smooth as glass. I then took it out for a spin to get it up to temp and do a few pulls; and has zero misfires or bogging/hesitation. Obviously it’ll take some miles before it relearned itself fully, but it’s much better.

Now, the strange behavior of the Intake VVT channel continues....

The values are so far off, that it has to be a logging issue as I said in the beginning. The v.4.03 is A01G internally, so it's a well-known parameter and must be an OFT issue then. Maybe send them a mail and maybe they will correct it?

To return to the topic, what have you done to your tune regarding loads/load limits?

It all interconnects.
I've scaled the MAF and then adjusted the load limits. Thereafter adjusted the Engine Load Compensation table. Check out this thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119535

You can try these Load limits for a start. I usually start out with those for the Gruppe-S header and adjust from there:



P.s.
If you don't want to go through all that hassle, you can still just use the AVCS with the OFT v.4.03 tune.

[R2]

An update roughly 16months ago has caused my intake cam readings to read incorrectly. I approached OFT about it but to no avail. I am running a ROM based on B01C.

[Hyperblue302]

Originally Posted by Tor

Cool! What was your method? Did you change one cam at a time? And how many flashes did it take.

Sorry it's been almost a year since I made that post. Forgot I even made it till now. Started with Wayne's v104 el tables as a baseline, then first changed the intake side by +1° for the whole table for one tune, +2° for the next tune, then -1°, and -2°. The vvt tool if I recall correctly only holds 12 runs Max for optimization,so I dataloggged 2, 3rd gear pulls for each tune. After optimizing with the tool, that was my new base, then I did the same for the exhaust side. Just kept switching back to forth between the intake and exhaust.
Overall not sure how much of a difference it made, but it was fun using. What intrigued me the most using it was that the tool kept pointing the exhaust cam in the 4k-5k rpm range to 50°. The stock tables only go to 40°