NO LSD???????

[churchx]

Legend@wheels: if you never brake in way that EBD may interfer in unwished manner, or never hop wheels in air for e-diff to engage, of course, sure, 3sec TRC off will do just fine for you. But it's not as if that will never be issue for anybody else in all possible occasions too. After all, you can find thread about pedal dance on this forum, and read for whom and at which track driving scenarios pedal dance was useful to fix some issues/limitations felt.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

- I tried trail braking mid-turn with the "normal" electronic aids off, but without the pedal dance. This resulted in a spin; the car literally locked up the rear brakes. My speculation is that the car recognized the fronts locking up, and put additional force on the rear brakes. The problem here, is that I had purposely put a much lower friction pad in the back, so it kept sending more and more brake pressure to the back, until it just locked. Once it locked, it stayed locked, even though I was not stepping on the brakes.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This past weekend at WSIR and the 2nd FT86CUP event, we did some additional Brake Dance testing.
Quick and dirty:
Without the brake dance, if you upset the car's computers enough, it will still re-engage traction and stability control. This specifically involves enough of a loss of traction that you're getting what the ECU believe to be uncontrolled wheelspin, the equivalent of lifting a rear wheel. The slip light will turn solid, and the traction/stability lights will turn off. After the "uncontrolled wheel spin" is eliminated, the slip light will turn off, and the traction/stability lights will turn back on (indicating that the systems are again "disabled")
This was most apparent through Turn 8 of WSIR, which is an ultra high speed, extremely bumpy sweeper. This was replicated lap after lap. The stability control engaging at 110+MPH was rather... scary. There were some 100+MPH slides induced BY THE COMPUTER.
Results were independently reproduced by @D1cker in his own car; Derek is the fastest non shop-sponsored FR-S/BRZ driver in SoCal.
You can also experience this by going through a driveway where you lift a rear wheel from lack of droop. Even with traction/stability off, the ECU will still engage traction/stability, and brake the wheel to allow the wheel in contact with the ground to put some power down.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Of note:
I was able to replicate the "slip light turning solid when going over big bumps or left foot braking" this weekend while canyoning when not using the pedal dance.
It's also typically accompanied with a CEL. The CEL is soft and goes away after a while.
@D1cker

Different people drive on different roads, different tracks and with different skills and in different manner. Surely for some pedaldance will never be needed, but also some may find it handy.

[Legend@wheels]

Great info thx

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[cjd]

Originally Posted by Legend@wheels

seriously in my opinion i think all that pedal dance method is total bullshit-its just another way to turn off the lights like the 3sec does
ive just tried it out and it feels the same as the 3sec press.
also same lights flashes on the dash.



it doesnt matter how bad driver you are -OFF should means OFF .
so if its off even if your the worst driver in the world the nannies arent supposed to do anything otherwise if anyone is complaining so its the car to blame OR the car supposed to be like that -no 100% off at all.
i think the light that came on (VSC/TRC nanny)it was just the Ediff intervening and nothing else.
i dont think anything except of the ediff is working on 3sec button ,and when it does (The car sliding light on the dash like posted above)flashes. and not because anything else is intervening.

Definitely different. There are scenarios where its obvious (trail braking? Left foot braking? Forget details). And in my direct experience, ice mode (PD) or not(3sec) consistently.

And, off is off. Till you hit 1.5g I think? Or one of the many other scenarios where the car uses brakes to try to help you out. Not all the bits are defined as traction control, which is the fuzzy area. And is why PD behaves differently.

[Legend@wheels]

Might be..
Never been to those conditions.
As a conclusion pd leaves you with only abs on? On all the conditions/surfaces

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[churchx]

AFAIK so.
Keep in mind, that not always that is wished (eg. my long blurb of track vs daily driving).

IIRC origin of pedal dance (which also works similar way on some other cars, (Lexus/Toyota other cars too IIRC?)) is for it to be some manufacturer diagnostic/maintenance mode to be used on dyno tests or something alike. Hence obscure procedure to enable it and not documented in manual (liability reasons?), as it never was intended to be officially used by customers.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by danielmailrs

Well as long as the pedal dance finish the nannies shift its all good.
Dont want any computer to touch and help my driving !

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Then just pull the fuse man. You'll do great.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by danielmailrs

Cool how rwd is a conpletely different world compared to fwd .
Its kinda sucks to drive this car and once you think you get it you realize that the full off isnt fully off and now your not sure if its the car that fixed you or its just you as a driver.
Well that to be seen soon
I hate computers @CARS!!


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IKR? It's almost like they're complete opposites of each other.

[Spuds]

New theory from recent experience: In long press mode, the reason people think that TC/VSC is still working is actually because of hitting the torque dip just as the slide is initiated. You had torque, then there is less torque as soon as rear wheel speed increases, whether due to slide or acceleration or both.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Spuds

New theory from recent experience: In long press mode, the reason people think that TC/VSC is still working is actually because of hitting the torque dip just as the slide is initiated. You had torque, then there is less torque as soon as rear wheel speed increases, whether due to slide or acceleration or both.

I'm at 5K.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by churchx

AFAIK so.
Keep in mind, that not always that is wished (eg. my long blurb of track vs daily driving).

IIRC origin of pedal dance (which also works similar way on some other cars, (Lexus/Toyota other cars too IIRC?)) is for it to be some manufacturer diagnostic/maintenance mode to be used on dyno tests or something alike. Hence obscure procedure to enable it and not documented in manual (liability reasons?), as it never was intended to be officially used by customers.

It's in the precautions section of the service manual. Only an elite group of the most safety-conscious owners will ever learn about it.

[churchx]

Ultramaroon: "inspection mode", and in repair manual? I wonder for repairing what and how it can be used? :/

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by churchx

Ultramaroon: "inspection mode", and in repair manual? I wonder for repairing what and how it can be used? :/

Dude, it's for exactly what you said. I'm not arguing anything, just showing you the cool stuff.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I'm at 5K.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I get what you're saying, though. Been there done that. Remember, I'm not above being full of shit. Been there done that too. Plenty