Should I Trade In My Si?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by ermax

When did a fall back on how great of a driver I am. I can accept that some people aren’t bothered by it. But you can’t just write it off as a nonissue. Torque dips may be common, I’ve been lucky enough to never own one or drive one until the FRS. I was warned by some of my autox friends that I may not like the car as a DD because of this but after driving the car the pros outweigh the cons. But that doesn’t mean it’s not there and not annoying.

BTW, it isn’t just 1000RPM.

Edit: just looked at that list of cars with torque dips. I’ve driven the AP1 and AP2 and although the AP1 is boring until 6k, it doesn’t feel like a “dip”. It just feels like a B16A until 6k. I would never own an AP1 specifically for this reason. The AP2 didn’t have a perceived dip (even if you can see one on paper) when I drove it. The Twins have a very perceivable dip though.

Porsches have a dip, but they also to have like more than twice as much power and the dip doesn't last as long so I don't think anyone notices.

S2000's dip occurs right before VTEC kicks in so its not noticeable either, plus the car has no torque to begin with so its already accelerating modestly.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Porsches have a dip, but they also to have like more than twice as much power and the dip doesn't last as long so I don't think anyone notices.

S2000's dip occurs right before VTEC kicks in so its not noticeable either, plus the car has no torque to begin with so its already accelerating modestly.

I drove a Boxster for about 6 weeks while I rebuilt the engine in my FRS and I never noticed a dip. I think your right, it's got enough power even when in a dip to not be that noticeable. On the AP1 it's bla all the way to 6k. I would have put the AP2 on my list of cars if it had a back seat. I would never be able to deal with the AP1 though.

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by ermax

Torque dip is complained about by people who don't want to be boy racer pulling to redline just to pass a mini van.
.

This is quote possibly the most idiotic thing I've ever read here. And that's saying a lot.
I've never ever had to pull to red line to pass a mini-van. Vans go like snails, I pass them in the blink of an eye.
I sometimes wonder what planet some of these posters live on.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

This is quote possibly the most idiotic thing I've ever read here. And that's saying a lot.
I've never ever had to pull to red line to pass a mini-van. Vans go like snails, I pass them in the blink of an eye.
I sometimes wonder what planet some of these posters live on.

A PLANET WITH NO TORQ DIP YOOOOOOOO

[Ganthrithor]

I couldn't get to work today because the torque dip was so deep my car stopped.

[Ganthrithor]

Just kidding: I didn't go to work today because I have the day off.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

This is quote possibly the most idiotic thing I've ever read here. And that's saying a lot.
I've never ever had to pull to red line to pass a mini-van. Vans go like snails, I pass them in the blink of an eye.
I sometimes wonder what planet some of these posters live on.

I will pretend you didn’t really take my comment literally and you’re just trolling.

[xenarc]

Get a 5.0 Mustang

[ermax]

Funny thing about this community is anytime you have a critique it’s like you are saying the whole car is ruined and you should be driving one of these options:
Prius
Mustang
Civic

These are my complains:
Torque dip (fixable)
Doors don’t stay open (fixable)
Sound like crap (not fixable, this is obviously my opinion)
Different rattle every day of the week (fixable daily until you just say to hell with it)

None of those problems would steer me away from the car. This is by far the most entertaining car I’ve ever owned. But I’m not going to be a fanboy and pretend it doesn’t have any flaws. The OP used to own an FRS and asked if it still has a torque dip. The fact is it does. Saying someone should downshift is irrelevant. You can dodge the dip all you want but it’s still there and that is all the OP asked.

If I had the choice between a 2018 Civic Si or a Twin I’d take the Twin hands down. I’d probably take it over the Type-R too.

[wild03]

Originally Posted by ermax

I drove a Boxster for about 6 weeks while I rebuilt the engine in my FRS and I never noticed a dip. I think your right, it's got enough power even when in a dip to not be that noticeable. On the AP1 it's bla all the way to 6k. I would have put the AP2 on my list of cars if it had a back seat. I would never be able to deal with the AP1 though.

Interesting to note, the 2009 s2000 with an msrp of 35.5k would cost 42k in today's dollars as per.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com

I think a lot of this, ”Subaru should have done this or I prefer that" talk lacks prespective. Kind of pretentious to assume to know what a car company should and should not do in a market were the wrong decision costs millions. We can all pretend to want something but until we put our money where our mouth is it's all talk. Would most people pay 5k more to have no dip? One would think that Subaru crunched some numbers and projected sales didn't justify the cost...look where the s2000 ended up....great car, but at the end the consumers stopped buying it and now it's history....
My 2 cents

[Adam_L]

S2k is sweet, but like most cars we can sit back and critique it down to the nitty gritty and move on . The process makes us feel good , about our perspective …. and the car(s) we drive / own.

[firekat]

For the short bit of time that I was driving my car with the torque dip I learned to use it to my benefit, which you could do in the twisties.

Yes, the BRZ has shortcomings. All vehicles do in one sort of way or another. Some shortcomings may have nothing to do with the vehicle itself but could be operational, financial or artifice based.

At times I have doubts that I got the right vehicle. Initially I was going to make a move on a Honda CTR, as that seemed to be the best option due to the best reviews and the fact that it does not have a power issue. First and foremost availability is still tight, and the ADM (Additional Dealer Markup) most specifically in California makes this car not a viable option. Most places will not even let you take it for a test drive unless you put a deposit down. Why would I spend anywhere from 5 - 20K over MSRP for a glorified Civic that is flat out big & butt ugly? So, it performs well, so do other cars, but it certainly is not worth close to 50K. There are better options at that price point.

I am building the BRZ into what I want, and I still have not exceeded what I would have paid for the other vehicles that I was looking at. Will the BRZ ever be a Porsche, whatever I do to it? No. It will be mine and made for my desires. It is what it is, a sports car. Sports cars have always historically been a bit "raw", that was the whole point.

I would proffer that even most of the current Porsches at this point in time are more a "luxury sports vehicle", brand new they are not accessible to many people, and it has been getting more so over the years. I owned a Porsche at one point in time, it was a lower end one, and even then the 911's back then were very different than what is being sold today.

Different rattle every day of the week (fixable daily until you just say to hell with it)

And yes no matter what I will do to the BRZ, it will still rattle and bang around, though I have to admit some of that has dissipated with some of the mods I have done.

So, if you are really interested in a sports car, the BRZ is it. You can enjoy it stock or think of it as a blank canvas for whatever your vision may be.

C'est la vie!

YMMV.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by wild03

Interesting to note, the 2009 s2000 with an msrp of 35.5k would cost 42k in today's dollars as per.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com

I think a lot of this, ”Subaru should have done this or I prefer that" talk lacks prespective. Kind of pretentious to assume to know what a car company should and should not do in a market were the wrong decision costs millions. We can all pretend to want something but until we put our money where our mouth is it's all talk. Would most people pay 5k more to have no dip? One would think that Subaru crunched some numbers and projected sales didn't justify the cost...look where the s2000 ended up....great car, but at the end the consumers stopped buying it and now it's history....
My 2 cents

Inflation can't easily be applied to all products though. Just look at TV's for example. They don't go up with inflation they have gone the other direction. Cars are similar. You get way more technology and quality in a car today for what you would have spent in the 90s. For example I had a 1995 Integra GS-R (94hp/liter, 8200RPM redline with no annoying holes in the powerband) that had a MSRP of 21400 back then. If I use your calculation that would be 35500 today. But in reality 35500 would get a WAY nicer car than my old Integra. A comparable car to the Integra today would be the Civic Si. A 2018 Civic Si is night and day nicer than the 95 GSR and it's only 24100. If the S2000 sold today I doubt it would sell for $42k.

Emissions regulations seemed to really kill the old NA, high HP/L high revving japanese engines with super linear power bands. Today they have all gone to small displacement FI engines with lower redlines. Now that the emission standards have been dialed back a bit it will be interesting to see if the auto industry follows or if they play it safe and stick with the Obama standards figuring that the next administration will just rachet the standards back up. Our engine is impressive with 100HP/L under Obama emissions regulations.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Inflation also doesn't mean shit when wages haven't kept up with it.

1995
Median household income: 53,330
BMW M3: 37,950 - 71% of median income

2017
Median household income: 59,039
BMW M4: 65,400 - 111% of median income

The car got 56% more expensive.
Cars are more expensive now when you look at the real buying power people have in our economy. My parents were able to buy brand new cars/ barely used luxury cars every 3ish years while feeding 2 kids. I have 2 kids and can't do that and I arguably have a much 'better' job they had when I was my kid's age.