Base Cayman vs BRZ

[EAGLE5]

As someone who would not have to save up for a Cayman, and as someone who traded a 362HP V8 for the FRS, I say get the twin. I can beat up on the twin all day and feel no qualms. With a more expensive car, I would feel qualms. A used engine is cheap. A used Porsche engine? Heh! Plus if I want to have fun, loud and light and tossable are good traits.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

As someone who would not have to save up for a Cayman, and as someone who traded a 362HP V8 for the FRS, I say get the twin. I can beat up on the twin all day and feel no qualms. With a more expensive car, I would feel qualms. A used engine is cheap. A used Porsche engine? Heh! Plus if I want to have fun, loud and light and tossable are good traits.

This^. I could have bought a new Cayman as easily as the FRS but as a high milage daily driver I would have felt bad slowly destroying it. Cost of purchase and upkeep aside (I get paid milage for work so either car is virtually free as far as my income is concerned) I feel I get every bit of fun out of the FRS as I would the Cayman. I will leave the Cayman for the dude that will drive it every third Sunday through the summer (if it isn't raining) and pound the crap out of the poor old FRS whenever the chance should arise.

[nikitopo]

I like Porsche's and I could buy one (a BRZ is not so cheap over here starting at the equivalent of 36k USD), but I would never be able to get over all the different reliability problems. What a poor guy ...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsp1i73z4Po[/ame]


I remember even a German journalist saying that you can drive a Subaru close to the red line, because it has a real tested racing engine. Something that it is not said so often for the German counterpart engines.

[Last Lemming Alive]

If you like rowing the gears and keeping a car on boil then go BRZ. Fun and cheap.

[botbs]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I remember even a German journalist saying that you can drive a Subaru close to the red line, because it has a real tested racing engine. Something that it is not said so often for the German counterpart engines.

What about this?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc[/ame]

[nikitopo]

Lol. You misunderstood my comment. Porsche has a very big know-how on racing engines and has some remarkable racing cars. The issue is that the majority of their road cars don't have much relation with what they're using in racing. Subaru cannot do this cause of the different sizes and budgets. For example, their racing engineering team is not a dedicated team. One day the same people will prepare the 24h Nurburgring racing car and another day will work on a project in the factory. It has been said that a 90% of the components of their racing cars comes from the ordinary production. I don't know any other manufacturer who can claim this.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Lol. You misunderstood my comment. Porsche has a very big know-how on racing engines and has some remarkable racing cars. The issue is that the majority of their road cars don't have much relation with what they're using in racing. Subaru cannot do this cause of the different sizes and budgets. For example, their racing engineering team is not a dedicated team. One day the same people will prepare the 24h Nurburgring racing car and another day will work on a project in the factory. It has been said that a 90% of the components of their racing cars comes from the ordinary production. I don't know any other manufacturer who can claim this.

I don't believe that for a second.

[Turbowned]

I'd rather have a newer Cayman, but I wouldn't go with a base car. I did outrun a TPC Turbo kitted 987 Cayman running 305 section rear tires at the road course this past Friday, so maybe I don't need one! My consumables will certainly be a lot less, anyway. That's the reason I sold my 911 and went back to a BRZ, so I could afford to track it. I had no problem daily driving the 911; it gave me no issues in 20,000 miles and two years of driving. Easy to work on, too. Probably the most straightforward semi-exotic car I've seen, in fact. I've tried to talk myself into a 987 Cayman but I think they look awkward; the newer ones look much better in my opinion.

[mkodama]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Lol. You misunderstood my comment. Porsche has a very big know-how on racing engines and has some remarkable racing cars. The issue is that the majority of their road cars don't have much relation with what they're using in racing. Subaru cannot do this cause of the different sizes and budgets. For example, their racing engineering team is not a dedicated team. One day the same people will prepare the 24h Nurburgring racing car and another day will work on a project in the factory. It has been said that a 90% of the components of their racing cars comes from the ordinary production. I don't know any other manufacturer who can claim this.

I will call that out as a bunch of nonsense as well.

Except for the 90% stock engine in the 24h Nürburgring promotional race car, which i don’t remember ever placing well.

[WolfpackS2k]

Hate to break it to you nikitopo, but you're severely mistaken. Porsche sports car engines are extremely durable and some are even directly dropped into their race cars. The Cayman ClubSport race car uses the exact engine from the GT4 street car. Same hp rating, same part number, no difference.

In long term reliability rankings Porsche always finishes very high up. Every manufacturer has the occasional misstep (IMS anyone?) but for the most part Porsche drivetrains are quite solid.

It's a bit ironic that you'd put them down and prop up Subaru given that (rightly or wrongly) they have a reputation for having some of the least reliable engines for a JDM car maker.

[Pat]

Spending a little time at any track will highlight how unreliable Subaru engines are. Each of the last couple events I've been at a Subaru engine failed. I've seen a few before those, too. I can't remember seeing engines from any other manufacturer fail as often on the track.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Hate to break it to you nikitopo, but you're severely mistaken. Porsche sports car engines are extremely durable and some are even directly dropped into their race cars. The Cayman ClubSport race car uses the exact engine from the GT4 street car. Same hp rating, same part number, no difference.

In long term reliability rankings Porsche always finishes very high up. Every manufacturer has the occasional misstep (IMS anyone?) but for the most part Porsche drivetrains are quite solid.

It's a bit ironic that you'd put them down and prop up Subaru given that (rightly or wrongly) they have a reputation for having some of the least reliable engines for a JDM car maker.

We were talking here about the base Cayman's or the base 911's. Not about the GT4 or GT3. No?

Just think that companies like Porsche have the budget to differentiate more their base models from their real racing cars. Subaru cannot do this on the same extent and they've said this many times. They don't have the budget and the resources to do it.

Originally Posted by Pat

Spending a little time at any track will highlight how unreliable Subaru engines are. Each of the last couple events I've been at a Subaru engine failed. I've seen a few before those, too. I can't remember seeing engines from any other manufacturer fail as often on the track.

And how many of these Subaru's that you claim you've seen broken were stock?

[WolfpackS2k]

The engine found in the Cayman GT4 is pulled straight out of the 911S. In Porsche's hierarchy, that's pretty low on the totem pole. The base Cayman, and all Porsche engines, are built to be high standards. It's obvious just from wrenching on them.

And you can hit the fuel cut all day long if you want. You can even adjust how you want to hit the fuel cut (if you have the Sport Chrono package).

[Pat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

We were talking here about the base Cayman's or the base 911's. Not about the GT4 or GT3. No?

Just think that companies like Porsche have the budget to differentiate more their base models from their real racing cars. Subaru cannot do this on the same extent and they've said this many times. They don't have the budget and the resources to do it.


And how many of these Subaru's that you claim you've seen broken were stock?

Both of the last two. I don't remember the details of the others, but at least one of them was a fully built WRL car.