Toyota's Answer To The tS?

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I feel the car could come with 350 hp and those people would still beg for more power. If not that, then something else.

Nah, I think if this car had a linear torque curve a lot of people would shut up

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Nah, I think if this car had a linear torque curve a lot of people would shut up

But the torque dip is our version of turbo lag

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by weederr33

But the torque dip is our version of turbo lag

It is definitely the most overblown thing about this car. I can see autocrossers being pissed about it because you get forced to drive in that rev band in auto-x, but it is easy to keep the revs above 4500 on the street should you desire.


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[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Quentin

It is definitely the most overblown thing about this car. I can see autocrossers being pissed about it because you get forced to drive in that rev band in auto-x, but it is easy to keep the revs above 4500 on the street should you desire.


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Shouldn't be doing autocross then



BTW totally kidding about that.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by Quentin

It is definitely the most overblown thing about this car. I can see autocrossers being pissed about it because you get forced to drive in that rev band in auto-x, but it is easy to keep the revs above 4500 on the street should you desire.

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I so desire.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I feel the car could come with 350 hp and those people would still beg for more power. If not that, then something else.

I doubt it. Most people bitching about power, me included all seem to agree that around 240 would be perfect.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Sure I get all of that, it's just a bummer when the revision of the Miata gets 25hp while the revision of the 86 only got 5 additional hp. Once you take into consideration the extra weight that the revised 86 gains with the performance package you are basically breaking even with the zenki 86 in terms of weight/power.

I don't want to turn this thread into a horsepower debate, I just wish the 86 wasn't the slowest sporty car you can buy new. That used to be the Miata, but the 86 got pushed to the very back. I'll be very surprised if a second generation of this car is made.

Why people still believe that the only gains on our cars were the ones provided on the catalog and that they were just 5hp?

The 2017 average about 177-178whp on Dyno.
The 2015 BRZ of similar mileage. Dyno is 163-164whp
The 2013 FRS of similar mileage. Dyno is 159-160whp

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...36&postcount=1


And the Miata as far I know has not gotten the 25hp increase yet, so it is still the slowest sporty car that you can buy new ...

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

That's why I wish Toyota focused more on reducing weight and less on gimmicks like steering wheel controls, hill assists, and useless gauge displays.

They tried this with some bare bones trims and they didn't sell that much. You never got them in the NA market, but they were available in other regions.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Why people still believe that the only gains on our cars were the ones provided on the catalog and that they were just 5hp?

The 2017 average about 177-178whp on Dyno.
The 2015 BRZ of similar mileage. Dyno is 163-164whp
The 2013 FRS of similar mileage. Dyno is 159-160whp

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...36&postcount=1


And the Miata as far I know has not gotten the 25hp increase yet, so it is still the slowest sporty car that you can buy new ...

So like 6 months left until the Miata overthrows the 86? I've seen lots of different dynos with lots of different numbers, but when it comes to acceleration between the two versions it looks like the kouki is roughly 0.1 second faster from 0-60 and the 1320. But I will stop by bitching now because I haven't driven a revised twin, but I also don't really have the urge to. I plan on test driving the 2019 Miata when it comes out though because it sounds like a notable improvement over the original ND which is already a solid car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Why people still believe that the only gains on our cars were the ones provided on the catalog and that they were just 5hp?

The 2017 average about 177-178whp on Dyno.
The 2015 BRZ of similar mileage. Dyno is 163-164whp
The 2013 FRS of similar mileage. Dyno is 159-160whp

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...36&postcount=1


And the Miata as far I know has not gotten the 25hp increase yet, so it is still the slowest sporty car that you can buy new ...


They tried this with some bare bones trims and they didn't sell that much. You never got them in the NA market, but they were available in other regions.

There you go misusing data again.
The "average" referred to for each car was for that individual car on that specific day. It is not saying that the average if each year are those rates. He even used that disclaimer at the end of the post. There are plenty of dynos of stock 13 to 16 cars that show around 170 and some of 17s that show less. You can not pick one number you like and ignore the rest just to try and prove your point. If you want to claim an average then show us some tests acros ten or more cars not ten tests on one car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

I doubt it. Most people bitching about power, me included all seem to agree that around 240 would be perfect.

No they don't. "Most people" bitching about power start at about a 300whp target. If they gave it 240 they would just move that goal to 350. If they gave it 300 then it should have 400. There will never be an agreement among the majority.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Those bitching about power and running an un-modded car can fix all of their complaints with an OFT and E-85 tune. After that, a header. After that, FI. Running E90 is a gas, man, can you dig it?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There you go misusing data again.
The "average" referred to for each car was for that individual car on that specific day. It is not saying that the average if each year are those rates. He even used that disclaimer at the end of the post. There are plenty of dynos of stock 13 to 16 cars that show around 170 and some of 17s that show less. You can not pick one number you like and ignore the rest just to try and prove your point. If you want to claim an average then show us some tests acros ten or more cars not ten tests on one car.

I think you need a mirror. I just copy-paste the original post. Who is misusing the data? The average means on the particular cars and dyno runs and on the SAME DYNO. Not different random numbers from different dynos having different calibrations. There were particular engine changes from the '13 to '15 models and from the '15 to '17 models. I am not making this things out of my head and there is evidence you cannot dispute. If you want to hide behind the official catalog 5hp claim increase or behind words you are free to do it, but let the others speak about the real numbers.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

Those bitching about power and running an un-modded car can fix all of their complaints with an OFT and E-85 tune. After that, a header. After that, FI. Running E90 is a gas, man, can you dig it?

Not everyone has easy access to e85 though?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I think you need a mirror. I just copy-paste the original post. Who is misusing the data? The average means on the particular cars and dyno runs and on the SAME DYNO. Not different random numbers from different dynos having different calibrations. There were particular engine changes from the '13 to '15 models and from the '15 to '17 models. I am not making this things out of my head and there is evidence you cannot dispute. If you want to hide behind the official catalog 5hp claim increase or behind words you are free to do it, but let the others speak about the real numbers.

It was one of each cars. That is not an average for the year of car it is an average of that one car from that year. The average from one vehicle is of no statistical value to support that all vehicles of that year are the same. All it shows is that each of those individual vehicles had that average.