Toyota's Answer To The tS?

[rkaywhodat]

Sounds like NA version of Gazoo Racing

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

I still like my 13' with stage 2 and E85!

I'm getting E90 here. Very entertaining.

[carsebuco]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

I'm getting E90 here. Very entertaining.

E50 crew checking in. No idea what real power feels like.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Right now it's pretty much a driver's race. The MY19 miata is getting roughly 20% more power so it should have the clear advantage.

The Miata was just redesigned in 2016. The original 155hp 2.0L had a lot of headroom left for making more power without adding forced induction and was basically a carryover from other models. They spent all of their development money on a light platform at first. Now they are investing in the powertrain. The Miata will probably get another 6 model years out of this generation.

The BRZ/86 are entering their 7th model year. The BRZ/86 won’t get more power in the existing platform because it doesn’t make fiscal sense unless they are going to be able to put it in the next gen model. My guess is that the FA20 not being in any other car means that the current iteration of the FA20 will live until this gen dies. I don’t think that Subaru or Toyota will make the mistake of a bespoke engine for the car next time around. Doing a bespoke engine really increases development cost and limits what they can do to react to the market (from a business case perspective).


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[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Quentin

The Miata was just redesigned in 2016. The original 155hp 2.0L had a lot of headroom left for making more power without adding forced induction and was basically a carryover from other models. They spent all of their development money on a light platform at first. Now they are investing in the powertrain. The Miata will probably get another 6 model years out of this generation.

The BRZ/86 are entering their 7th model year. The BRZ/86 won’t get more power in the existing platform because it doesn’t make fiscal sense unless they are going to be able to put it in the next gen model. My guess is that the FA20 not being in any other car means that the current iteration of the FA20 will live until this gen dies. I don’t think that Subaru or Toyota will make the mistake of a bespoke engine for the car next time around. Doing a bespoke engine really increases development cost and limits what they can do to react to the market (from a business case perspective).


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Sure I get all of that, it's just a bummer when the revision of the Miata gets 25hp while the revision of the 86 only got 5 additional hp. Once you take into consideration the extra weight that the revised 86 gains with the performance package you are basically breaking even with the zenki 86 in terms of weight/power.

I don't want to turn this thread into a horsepower debate, I just wish the 86 wasn't the slowest sporty car you can buy new. That used to be the Miata, but the 86 got pushed to the very back. I'll be very surprised if a second generation of this car is made.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Sure I get all of that, it's just a bummer when the revision of the Miata gets 25hp while the revision of the 86 only got 5 additional hp. Once you take into consideration the extra weight that the revised 86 gains with the performance package you are basically breaking even with the zenki 86 in terms of weight/power.

I don't want to turn this thread into a horsepower debate, I just wish the 86 wasn't the slowest sporty car you can buy new. That used to be the Miata, but the 86 got pushed to the very back. I'll be very surprised if a second generation of this car is made.

That’s the thing. Both are 2.0L N/A engines. There just isn’t much headroom left without completely overhauling the compression, lift, cams, etc on the FA20.

I think there will be a next gen. I’d be happy to see the FA20 get a light massage to rev more happily and sound less like a bucket of bolts. Put some of the new lower friction technology and add the mid-stop VVT. That will improve power/efficiency and drivability. Spend the money on a platform that is less hacked up Impreza and more bespoke RWD sports coupe.


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[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Quentin

That’s the thing. Both are 2.0L N/A engines. There just isn’t much headroom left without completely overhauling the compression, lift, cams, etc on the FA20.

I think there will be a next gen. I’d be happy to see the FA20 get a light massage to rev more happily and sound less like a bucket of bolts. Put some of the new lower friction technology and add the mid-stop VVT. That will improve power/efficiency and drivability. Spend the money on a platform that is less hacked up Impreza and more bespoke RWD sports coupe.


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That's why I wish Toyota focused more on reducing weight and less on gimmicks like steering wheel controls, hill assists, and useless gauge displays.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Sure I get all of that, it's just a bummer when the revision of the Miata gets 25hp while the revision of the 86 only got 5 additional hp. Once you take into consideration the extra weight that the revised 86 gains with the performance package you are basically breaking even with the zenki 86 in terms of weight/power.

I don't want to turn this thread into a horsepower debate, I just wish the 86 wasn't the slowest sporty car you can buy new. That used to be the Miata, but the 86 got pushed to the very back.

I agree , this really pushes us back a bit. But I'm not discouraged! Most of us that care to have power, don't keep it stock. the question is, which car can be made fastest N/A? if you're concerned about being slow.
The 181 hp on a 2.0L isn't that impressive of a motor. It's the light chassis that makes the power seem impressive.

I'll be very surprised if a second generation of this car is made.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by Quentin

That’s the thing. Both are 2.0L N/A engines. There just isn’t much headroom left without completely overhauling the compression, lift, cams, etc on the FA20.

I feel like they stopped the engineering process once they realized they could get 200HP and felt that was enough.


240HP F20C/220HP K20A and without Direct Injection!!1

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

I feel like they stopped the engineering process once they realized they could get 200HP and felt that was enough.


240HP F20C/220HP K20A and without Direct Injection!!1

IIRC, 200 HP was the stated design goal. It was done with a purpose in mind, same as the rest of the design choices. 8,9,10/10 fun without the 10/10 risk (mostly) of a faster, more powerful car.

After it's gone, people will finally realize how awesome it was, and what and oddball it is.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

I hope you know something I don't

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

IIRC, 200 HP was the stated design goal. It was done with a purpose in mind, same as the rest of the design choices. 8,9,10/10 fun without the 10/10 risk (mostly) of a faster, more powerful car.

After it's gone, people will finally realize how awesome it was, and what and oddball it is.

It's one of the most awarded cars of the decade, I'm pretty sure people already realize how cool it is.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I hope you know something I don't

It's one of the most awarded cars of the decade, I'm pretty sure people already realize how cool it is.

Except for the "more power" crowd.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

That's why I wish Toyota focused more on reducing weight and less on gimmicks like steering wheel controls, hill assists, and useless gauge displays.

Wouldn't really call this useless. It's pretty nice being able to get temperature readings on mine. If someone really cares about oil temps and whatnot they're going to add gauges anyway.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

Except for the "more power" crowd.

I feel the car could come with 350 hp and those people would still beg for more power. If not that, then something else.