2018 BRZ tS - The Thread for Potential Owners

[ayau]

Anybody know the tS spring rates? Also, how does the car ride with the Sach dampers compared to the base model?

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nicely detailed and really shows how things add up fast!
And people really think they are going to get a $40K out the door Supra?

Have they announced pricing on the supra?
If I had to guess it will be at least 55-60k before taxes.

In our canadian market with our dollar the tS starts at $38,000 before any fee's or taxes are factored in.
You'd be looking at a $45k car before you walk out the door

[ayau]

I got a dealer to do 30.5k. Stickers for 35k. I think that’s pretty reasonable. It’s a crystal white pearl. Might have it in my possession as early as this Thursday.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by ayau

I got a dealer to do 30.5k. Stickers for 35k. I think that’s pretty reasonable. It’s a crystal white pearl. Might have it in my possession as early as this Thursday.

Great deal. Congrats. However, it doesn't surprise me given that sales for the BRZ has fallen so much this year. Only 364 units were sold in May in the U.S. The drop-off for the 86 is 41% of sales. I really think this is a strong sign that Toyota is letting the 86 die in favor of the new Supra. Without the 86 supporting production, the unit cost of the BRZ must be skyrocketing unless they are using parts already in inventory and they have other uses for the line. I got my 18 BRZ Limited for $3200 below sticker in April for a car that was ordered from the factory.

I actually feel pretty good that we probably got the end of the run so all of the upgrades and fixes are there. My car is quieter and smoother than I expected and the upgrade in infotainment to include Android Auto/CarPlay is a welcome addition.

Enjoy....

[ayau]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Great deal. Congrats. However, it doesn't surprise me given that sales for the BRZ has fallen so much this year. Only 364 units were sold in May in the U.S. The drop-off for the 86 is 41% of sales. I really think this is a strong sign that Toyota is letting the 86 die in favor of the new Supra. Without the 86 supporting production, the unit cost of the BRZ must be skyrocketing unless they are using parts already in inventory and they have other uses for the line. I got my 18 BRZ Limited for $3200 below sticker in April for a car that was ordered from the factory.

I actually feel pretty good that we probably got the end of the run so all of the upgrades and fixes are there. My car is quieter and smoother than I expected and the upgrade in infotainment to include Android Auto/CarPlay is a welcome addition.

Enjoy....

I’m sure if someone wasn’t picky on color and don’t mind traveling, a tS can be had for 5-6k off. This was literally the last white one within reasonable driving distance and the dealer was also willing to negotiate. The rest of the dealers are only discounting 1-3k.

I also think the tS will hold slightly better resale than the base, which is why I picked a slightly more expensive BRZ trim over the base. I’m sure I could turn it around and sell it for 27k in a year or two without any problem.

I think the 17 mid year refresh will last until 2020. After that, they may choose to discontinue the car. The platform will be very old and it may not be worth the investment to redesign a new one. Toyota may choose to focus their sales on the Supra instead.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by ayau

I’m sure if someone wasn’t picky on color and don’t mind traveling, a tS can be had for 5-6k off. This was literally the last white one within reasonable driving distance and the dealer was also willing to negotiate. The rest of the dealers are only discounting 1-3k.

I also think the tS will hold slightly better resale than the base, which is why I picked a slightly more expensive BRZ trim over the base. I’m sure I could turn it around and sell it for 27k in a year or two without any problem.

I think the 17 mid year refresh will last until 2020. After that, they may choose to discontinue the car. The platform will be very old and it may not be worth the investment to redesign a new one. Toyota may choose to focus their sales on the Supra instead.

I checked prices all over Nevada and California when I purchased mine and found that almost every dealer was willing to discount about the same amount if pushed. A few, with virtually no BRZ's, weren't willing to give that much. I couldn't find any internet sales person who knew much about the BRZ or what options were available.

I don't necessarily agree that tS will hold value better because, IMO, the wing is ugly and younger buyers who might like the wing won't have the money for a used car without financing. If it had a hotter engine than the other MT versions, it might. But it doesn't. I can't see it getting much more than $1000 more than the Limited with PP in a few years. But you got a great buy, so it shouldn't make a big difference either way.

Otherwise, I totally agree with your assessment.

[J1Avs]

Originally Posted by ayau

I got a dealer to do 30.5k. Stickers for 35k. I think that’s pretty reasonable. It’s a crystal white pearl. Might have it in my possession as early as this Thursday.

Heck of a deal!!

[ayau]

Originally Posted by rvoll

I checked prices all over Nevada and California when I purchased mine and found that almost every dealer was willing to discount about the same amount if pushed. A few, with virtually no BRZ's, weren't willing to give that much. I couldn't find any internet sales person who knew much about the BRZ or what options were available.

I don't necessarily agree that tS will hold value better because, IMO, the wing is ugly and younger buyers who might like the wing won't have the money for a used car without financing. If it had a hotter engine than the other MT versions, it might. But it doesn't. I can't see it getting much more than $1000 more than the Limited with PP in a few years. But you got a great buy, so it shouldn't make a big difference either way.

Otherwise, I totally agree with your assessment.

I thought the damper and springs were unique to the tS, or are they the same as the PP?

I view this car similar to the s2000 CR. Dealers had a very difficult time selling the CR. Since the s2000 has been discontinued, it’s the most sought after trim. The CR also had similar enhancements, same engine but added aero, stiffer shocks, and sticker tires. One could argue that the stiffer shocks are better suited for the sticker tires compared to a base trim with upgraded tires. Only time will tell.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by ayau

I thought the damper and springs were unique to the tS, or are they the same as the PP?

I view this car similar to the s2000 CR. Dealers had a very difficult time selling the CR. Since the s2000 has been discontinued, it’s the most sought after trim. The CR also had similar enhancements, same engine but added aero, stiffer shocks, and sticker tires. One could argue that the stiffer shocks are better suited for the sticker tires compared to a base trim with upgraded tires. Only time will tell.

The dampers and springs are the same as the PP. You do have some STI bits in terms of spoilers, springs, and strut bars, but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference of those bits when driving the car vs the PP. The tires are PS4S (the same as I have) rather than the Primacy HP's and they are indeed better. However, after a few years, the tires are worn and would make no difference at resale.

The S2000, IMO, is a different animal with a higher output engine, and overall, a better built car. The CR was designed as a track car, which is a whole different thing than an tS, designed to be an upscale, top of the line with all accessories. That's why they are totally different and cannot be compared. Even the base model of the S2000 is considered a classic and has great resale. The volume of the S2000 was considerably lower than the Twins which means more difficult to find. The s2000 was a classic. I doubt whether anyone consider the 86 to be the same.

That said, while logic says the tS will not get a significantly higher value, we won't really know until it actually re-sells. Let's check back in 3 years or so and we'll see what the market delivers.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by rvoll

The dampers and springs are the same as the PP. You do have some STI bits in terms of spoilers, springs, and strut bars, but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference of those bits when driving the car vs the PP. The tires are PS4S (the same as I have) rather than the Primacy HP's and they are indeed better. However, after a few years, the tires are worn and would make no difference at resale.

The S2000, IMO, is a different animal with a higher output engine, and overall, a better built car. The CR was designed as a track car, which is a whole different thing than an tS, designed to be an upscale, top of the line with all accessories. That's why they are totally different and cannot be compared. Even the base model of the S2000 is considered a classic and has great resale. The volume of the S2000 was considerably lower than the Twins which means more difficult to find. The s2000 was a classic. I doubt whether anyone consider the 86 to be the same.

That said, while logic says the tS will not get a significantly higher value, we won't really know until it actually re-sells. Let's check back in 3 years or so and we'll see what the market delivers.

The dampers and springs appear to have different part numbers. An example of the front left damper part numbers:

STRUT COMPLETE-FRONT LEFT
ts: 20310CA250, $313.92
PP: 20310CA170, $313.92
base: 20310CA230, $144.87

Source:

tS catalog
https://estore.subarupartswarehouse....10-210-01.html

limited catalog
https://estore.subarupartswarehouse....10-210-01.html

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by ayau

The dampers and springs appear to have different part numbers. An example of the front left damper part numbers:

STRUT COMPLETE-FRONT LEFT
ts: 20310CA250, $313.92
PP: 20310CA170, $313.92
base: 20310CA230, $144.87

Source:

tS catalog
https://estore.subarupartswarehouse....10-210-01.html

limited catalog
https://estore.subarupartswarehouse....10-210-01.html

I believe the struts are actually the same (and are exactly the same price), but may have slightly different attachments. If the tS dampers were really better than the PP, wouldn't you expect a higher price? Driving the two, I can't tell the difference, but I can with the non-PP model (which is the one I have). I test drove all of the models.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by rvoll

I believe the struts are actually the same (and are exactly the same price), but may have slightly different attachments. If the tS dampers were really better than the PP, wouldn't you expect a higher price? Driving the two, I can't tell the difference, but I can with the non-PP model (which is the one I have). I test drove all of the models.

Per the limited parts catalog, the PP and non-PP trims share the same spring. The only difference is the damper. The tS uses slightly higher spring rates.

From Edmunds:
"the BRZ tS rides on springs that are 15 percent stiffer in front and 8 percent stiffer in the rear."

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/fir...rst-drive.html

Stiffer spring rates will generally warrant revised dampers.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by ayau

Per the limited parts catalog, the PP and non-PP trims share the same spring. The only difference is the damper. The tS uses slightly higher spring rates.

From Edmunds:
"the BRZ tS rides on springs that are 15 percent stiffer in front and 8 percent stiffer in the rear."

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/fir...rst-drive.html

Stiffer spring rates will generally warrant revised dampers.

Yes, in general you are correct. The tS has STI springs. But remember, the non-PP and PP both have the same springs and yet different dampers. So I'm not sure Subaru uses your logic. You certainly can mix springs and dampers. The TRD lowering springs can be used with the non-PP dampers. Again, they are the same price and I believe they are essentially the same dampers. I know you are trying to find reasons to believe the tS is a whole lot better, but I think most of the increase in price is marketing -- not the product. They are trying to use a limited run to get more margins out of the car. I really don't think they'd use special dampers for such a limited run and ruin their margins. Nowhere do they talk about DIFFERENT dampers in the tS than the PP -- only different springs.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Yes, in general you are correct. The tS has STI springs. But remember, the non-PP and PP both have the same springs and yet different dampers. So I'm not sure Subaru uses your logic. You certainly can mix springs and dampers. The TRD lowering springs can be used with the non-PP dampers. Again, they are the same price and I believe they are essentially the same dampers. I know you are trying to find reasons to believe the tS is a whole lot better, but I think most of the increase in price is marketing -- not the product. They are trying to use a limited run to get more margins out of the car. I really don't think they'd use special dampers for such a limited run and ruin their margins. Nowhere do they talk about DIFFERENT dampers in the tS than the PP -- only different springs.

Couldn't care less if the dampers used in the tS are better or worse. Without somebody dyno testing the dampers, we'll never know if they're the same or not. If they used the exact part numbers, then I would completely agree with you. I also can't see how the mounting points could be different on the tS damper.

Regarding the price being the same, Sachs makes both dampers. The only difference I could potentially see is the valving of the damper. The tS could potentially be re-valved to better suit the STI springs. I don't think that would necessarily increase the price of the damper.

The rear dampers also have different part numbers. Do they also have different mounting points?