AE86 production numbers vs future?

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Zaku

And I'm making a stand as a person studying to be an automotive historian. AS an enthusiast I will agree with you on the AE86 but I will only accept the Coupe LEVIN.

What about Coupe Trueno? I don't understand how flip up headlights make it not a sports car? I mean I'll agree with you on one thing, if you have an AE86, its Coupe Levin, Trueno Hatch, hands down. Those are the sexiest ones.

Also, again, using that strict "no hatches" mentality, you're leaving out a lot of cars that are in FACT, Sports Cars, like the Mk3 and Mk4 Supra's.

[A-Spike]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

There are 0 compact RWD hardtop coupes.

This is compact and RWD, but it's ugly.

[SUB-FT86]

Yeah I don't think the FT is really aiming at being a futuristic AE86 so I think Toyota should have left out the 86 part in FT86 IMO. I think it's more of a RWD Celica GT sports car. The AE didn't look like a sports car either but the FT does. I consider the 2000gt/Supra/Celica/MR2/LF-A the real sports cars and GT sports cars from Toyota. Just like I consider the s2000 and NSX the only two real sports cars from Honda but Honda became famous because of the sporty coupes.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by A-Spike

This is compact and RWD, but it's ugly.

AGREED!!!:happy0180:

That car is super fugly.

[Calais]

yes but its too expensive to be considered a competitor to the FT

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Yeah I don't think the FT is really aiming at being a futuristic AE86 so I think Toyota should have left out the 86 part in FT86 IMO. I think it's more of a RWD Celica GT sports car. The AE didn't look like a sports car either but the FT does. I consider the 2000gt/Supra/Celica/MR2/LF-A the real sports cars and GT sports cars from Toyota. Just like I consider the s2000 and NSX the only two real sports cars from Honda but Honda became famous because of the sporty coupes.

You're kidding right? The AE86 is like a mini version of the early-mid 80's Celica and Celica-Supra. My 86 gets confused with the Celica all the time by lesser-informed people.

Still on this stigma. You know that the Celica/Celica Supra/ Supra were all 2+2's? Every Supra variant was a hatchback.

[Mr.Jay]

LOL we are all soo off topic its great

I do enjoy this debate

@ichitaka05: I do consider the NSX type R a super car. It was built and born on the track. I consider most of the Type Rs track focused but have a hard time calling anything that isnt RWD a true sports car.

I think I'm just one of the purist that think while AWD is great for numbers and performance its something that takes away control from the driver and gives it to a computer which takes it off my list as a sports car

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

You're kidding right? The AE86 is like a mini version of the early-mid 80's Celica and Celica-Supra. My 86 gets confused with the Celica all the time by lesser-informed people.

You're right about that one. The celica and supra became more low slung in the 90's and later. I totally forgot about the boxier versions in the past.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

LOL we are all soo off topic its great

I do enjoy this debate

@ichitaka05: I do consider the NSX type R a super car. It was built and born on the track. I consider most of the Type Rs track focused but have a hard time calling anything that isnt RWD a true sports car.

I think I'm just one of the purist that think while AWD is great for numbers and performance its something that takes away control from the driver and gives it to a computer which takes it off my list as a sports car

I too enjoy this debate. But what if its Rear drive based AWD?

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You're right about that one. The celica and supra became more low slung in the 90's and later. I totally forgot about the boxier versions in the past.

So the lower slung 90's FF grocery-getter Celica's are more sports car's than the 86? Because it "looks" sportier?

That was the styling of the 80's, its "styling".

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

What about Coupe Trueno? I don't understand how flip up headlights make it not a sports car? I mean I'll agree with you on one thing, if you have an AE86, its Coupe Levin, Trueno Hatch, hands down. Those are the sexiest ones.

Also, again, using that strict "no hatches" mentality, you're leaving out a lot of cars that are in FACT, Sports Cars, like the Mk3 and Mk4 Supra's.

lol sorry I didn't type Trueno after the end of my sentence, and yes you got me on the supra, too. I'll admit that, But I'm still not accepting some hatches as Sports car. And I owned Hatches before my last car was a hatchback as an owner I'm not gonna go up and say hey I drive a sports car too. To say the 240z owners club. If you know what I'm saying.Again speaking strictly from a historian prescriptive.

Now If I spoke from Marketing! Everything is a sports car, because it's Sporty! yeah! TSX wagon! yeah that's a sports car because it's "Sporty!" Your Yaris Oh hell yeah it's Sporty! wanna deliver Tofu! heres an ECHO! it's Sporty !!wanna go green here's a CRZ it's SPORRTTTTYYYY

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

So the lower slung 90's FF grocery-getter Celica's are more sports car's than the 86? Because it "looks" sportier?

That was the styling of the 80's, its "styling".

I feel you on the Celica. It was both RWD and FWD so it had its share of not being a full sports car. But I believe the answer to that is the FT86. It will be better balanced with a lower center of gravity, front mid-ship engine and more than likely way better handling.

[WingsofWar]

As an enthusiast, I think that the AE86 is a sports car.

But i think that Zaku might be right about the AE86 not being a sports car by government and corporate views.

Example Scenario:

If the Corolla today was a RWD hatchback with a 1.5liter econobox. Then Toyota offered a Corolla S trim with little bit more performance. I don't think it would change the insurance bracket at all. In fact it would still be labeled as a econobox even with that added performance. Therefor it is not a sports car.

Now if Toyota offered the same chassis lets call it Corolla GT-S with a 2.5liter Turbo, stiffer suspension, etc. and raising the market value 15% premium over the base price. Then I can see the Company and the government seeing the car as a sports car. Unfortunately this is not the case.

The Difference between the base corolla and the performance corolla is very small. Not enough to see large differences. I'm sure when the AE86 came out the MSRP was only maybe $1500 more than the lesser models. (speculating).


However Rally cars are sports cars....lets break it down.....Rally is a sport.....a car is built to compete in that rally.....Rally = Sport.....and.....Car......OMG......Sports Car! Just because it was intended for dirt doesn't make it any lesser of a sports vehicle. Even F1 grassroots played in the dirt for awhile.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

The Difference between the base corolla and the performance corolla is very small. Not enough to see large differences. I'm sure when the AE86 came out the MSRP was only maybe $1500 more than the lesser models. (speculating).

The GT-S was ~ $2500 more than the SR-5, if my memory serves me right.

Which in today's money is about $5100 difference.

Couldn't tell you the difference between a GT-S and a 4-door Corolla DX, or something. Never really cared what those cars (4-doors) were worth new.

Its one of the reasons you see WAYYYY more SR-5's than GT-S', people didn't want to spend that much money on a sports 'Corolla'....thats really a marketing blunder, imo.