Does electronic aids help or ...

[Geese1]

Just for reference, I've taken a couple of preliminary HPDE classes at the Pittsburgh International Raceway (before I had the BRZ), and in the class every instructor has always said to leave the traction control on when you go out on the track, as in most cases you'd be faster than with it off.

I found this confusing, as it was counter-intuitive to everything I'd heard before, but since multiple instructors were saying this over 2 class events, I figure they've got to know something I don't.

It'll be interesting once I finally get my first HPDE event, which will have an instructor in the passenger seat until I qualify to go solo, if they say the same thing, or at least have me use the Track setting, which while still leaving traction control on loosens the limits (from what I understand).

BTW, is the pedal dance doing the same thing as just holding down the traction control button? In the 2018 I have, doing that for 3 seconds while stopped will completely turn off both traction and stability control, at least according to the manual.

[Stang70Fastback]

The pedal dance deactivates a few additional systems such as Electronic Brake Force Distribution, and the e-diff function I think. Holding down the buttons for 3 seconds is all you need to do if you just want to **** around without intervention from the systems in terms of sliding around and doing donuts and stuff.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Unless you regularly pedal dance, you would never notice because the behavior is the same with the long press.

Wait what? I've never had traction control do anything I could sense with either the long press or the pedal dance.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Wait what? I've never had traction control do anything I could sense with either the long press or the pedal dance.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Geese1

Just for reference, I've taken a couple of preliminary HPDE classes at the Pittsburgh International Raceway (before I had the BRZ), and in the class every instructor has always said to leave the traction control on when you go out on the track, as in most cases you'd be faster than with it off.

I found this confusing, as it was counter-intuitive to everything I'd heard before, but since multiple instructors were saying this over 2 class events, I figure they've got to know something I don't.

It'll be interesting once I finally get my first HPDE event, which will have an instructor in the passenger seat until I qualify to go solo, if they say the same thing, or at least have me use the Track setting, which while still leaving traction control on loosens the limits (from what I understand).

BTW, is the pedal dance doing the same thing as just holding down the traction control button? In the 2018 I have, doing that for 3 seconds while stopped will completely turn off both traction and stability control, at least according to the manual.

I was told that too by some instructors. The thing I don't agree with is that not all cars have the same settings when it comes to their traction control settings even in "sport" or "track" mods. I have a 13' and I can't believe how intrusive it is.

[guybo]

The reason why TC and SC are no longer allowed in F1 is that it's like using a cheat and makes every driver faster, so there's less to differentiate bthe truly fast drivers from the lesser ones. When Vettel was on his 4 championship roll, the Red Bull team was accused of using the ECU settings to create something like SC and that's why they had so much more cornering speed than everyone else.

So yeah, unless you have some serious talent and can out perform a computer, you're better off with the electronic aids.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by guybo

The reason why TC and SC are no longer allowed in F1 is that it's like using a cheat and makes every driver faster, so there's less to differentiate bthe truly fast drivers from the lesser ones. When Vettel was on his 4 championship roll, the Red Bull team was accused of using the ECU settings to create something like SC and that's why they had so much more cornering speed than everyone else.

So yeah, unless you have some serious talent and can out perform a computer, you're better off with the electronic aids.

Can't really compare F1 cars to our cars though. Our VSC/TC is designed to save you not make you faster. Big difference. While I am rebuilding my engine I've been driving my dad's 2001 Boxster and the nannies in that car are way less intrusive. Still wouldn't leave them on when on a race track but at least when you spin the tires it's not limiting you to 5% power for an hour. Instead it drops the power just enough to regain traction and then instantly starts to dial the power back up. No way would I ever leave any nannies on in our cars when doing performance driving. It makes you light years slower. If you forget to turn them off (been there done that) you will know it the first time you crank the wheel. I don't think people realize how much harder you drive on track Vs public roads. Especially at an autox where there is literally no risk in pushing the car well beyond the limits.

I'm really glad they banned aids in F1 though. It was getting so boring without driver error. I'm sure the drivers are loving it too as it adds to the challenge.

[NoHaveMSG]

I was just using the long press and got a CEL during my first session at Thunderhill west late April. The CEL kicked the TC back on while turning in to turn 3, which you cut a huge curb at over 70mph. It about throw me off the track when TC kicked in. It didn't know what the hell to do. I am not going to lie, a bit of panic my have squirted out.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by ermax

Especially at an autox where there is literally no risk in pushing the car well beyond the limits.

There is always risk at an autox, even if it's very low.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

The pedal dance deactivates a few additional systems such as Electronic Brake Force Distribution, and the e-diff function I think. Holding down the buttons for 3 seconds is all you need to do if you just want to **** around without intervention from the systems in terms of sliding around and doing donuts and stuff.

I thought I read somewhere that the 17+ Twins deactivate the e-diff with the long-press.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by cjd

There is always risk at an autox, even if it's very low.

Yeah depends a lot on the the location of the event (parking lot with light poles and curbs vs runway). You are at a MUCH higher risk driving on public roads driving like a normal person than you are on a giant runway like a mad man. So if' you are concerned about the risk at an autox then you may as well keep your car parked in your driveway.

[guybo]

Originally Posted by ermax

Can't really compare F1 cars to our cars though. Our VSC/TC is designed to save you not make you faster. Big difference. While I am rebuilding my engine I've been driving my dad's 2001 Boxster and the nannies in that car are way less intrusive. Still wouldn't leave them on when on a race track but at least when you spin the tires it's not limiting you to 5% power for an hour. Instead it drops the power just enough to regain traction and then instantly starts to dial the power back up. No way would I ever leave any nannies on in our cars when doing performance driving. It makes you light years slower. If you forget to turn them off (been there done that) you will know it the first time you crank the wheel. I don't think people realize how much harder you drive on track Vs public roads. Especially at an autox where there is literally no risk in pushing the car well beyond the limits.

I'm really glad they banned aids in F1 though. It was getting so boring without driver error. I'm sure the drivers are loving it too as it adds to the challenge.

Like I said, unless you're really good you're probably going to be faster with TC and SC on. Yes, the systems in the car are to keep you out of trouble but that also can make you faster.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by guybo

Like I said, unless you're really good you're probably going to be faster with TC and SC on. Yes, the systems in the car are to keep you out of trouble but that also can make you faster.

You would have to be a seriously bad and inexperienced driver for this to be the case though.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by ermax

Yeah depends a lot on the the location of the event (parking lot with light poles and curbs vs runway). You are at a MUCH higher risk driving on public roads driving like a normal person than you are on a giant runway like a mad man. So if' you are concerned about the risk at an autox then you may as well keep your car parked in your driveway.

"I can catch this"


Boom


Conditions can unquestionably contribute. The idea that it is so safe, it'll be fine contributes as much or more.


No disagreement from me on the relative safety, I only take issue with the idea that there is "literally no risk"