Why would more power ruin the car??

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Yep 100% safe.

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Oh, and I'm very responsible. Wash my balls everyday.

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

My trd suspension was installed by the dealer, which they told me was now under full new car warranty.

You cannot say yourself if a modification is safe and no one cares if you are responsible or not. Even your dealer cannot say if a modification can cause issues on public roads and it is irrelevant with warranty. You still don't get it. Only a certified inspector by an independent organization can do this or certified people within the factory. Subaru had lately issues in Japan, because the employees doing the final checks were not certified. So, it is not that simple.

Originally Posted by cjd

I'm feeling ornery, so I'll say it.

Enough of these cars show up wrapped around trees or otherwise destroyed by people that can't handle the car as it sits... more power would not help. I like my insurance rates being higher than I like, but still affordable... I've seen them go up simply because the vehicle has been categorized as higher risk already...

Exactly.

Why so many aftermarket companies saying "for racing use only" or "use it on your own risk"?

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

You cannot say yourself if a modification is safe and no one cares if you are responsible or not. Even your dealer cannot say if a modification can cause issues on public roads and it is irrelevant with warranty. You still don't get it. Only a certified inspector by an independent organization can do this or certified people within the factory. Subaru had lately issues in Japan, because the employees doing the final checks were not certified. So, it is not that simple.



Exactly.

Why so many aftermarket companies saying "for racing use only" or "use it on your own risk"?

Oh brother, pull up you panties Nancy.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

You cannot say yourself if a modification is safe and no one cares if you are responsible or not. Even your dealer cannot say if a modification can cause issues on public roads and it is irrelevant with warranty. You still don't get it. Only a certified inspector by an independent organization can do this or certified people within the factory. Subaru had lately issues in Japan, because the employees doing the final checks were not certified. So, it is not that simple.



Exactly.

Why so many aftermarket companies saying "for racing use only" or "use it on your own risk"?

Certification don't mean shit. I have met some really crappy certfied people in my day. Even if it did mean something the dealers here have Certified tech's that can indeed do all safety inspections. The same guy that installs the parts can sign off on the safety.
The law in Japan says inspectors must be "qualified" but leaves it up to the companies what that means. There is no certification required by the law and the inspectors are not third party independants but simply trained employees. They were in trouble because their internal policies required their inspectors to have completed special training which they had not finished yet not because the people that were inspecting were doing a bad job.
They say for racing use only to try and dodge laws and liabilityIt does not mean that they think their product is unsafe.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

No

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Certification don't mean shit. I have met some really crappy certfied people in my day. ............

Well, THAT about says it ......as far as what my experience has been.

The concept of "certification" just floods my brain with stories .....


humfrz

PS ...... IMHO, no amount of "certification" can replace product/systems knowledge, coupled with common sense.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

You cannot say yourself if a modification is safe and no one cares if you are responsible or not. Even your dealer cannot say if a modification can cause issues on public roads and it is irrelevant with warranty. You still don't get it. Only a certified inspector by an independent organization can do this or certified people within the factory.

Define "safe". How do you certify someone to determine if something is "safe"? What are the qualifications/certifications that someone needs to have in order to define what "safe" is? What are the qualifications/certifications needed to give someone the qualifications/certifications to define "safe"? And so on...

The point is that "safe" and "reliable" are relative terms. At some point a person or committee made a judgement call to define and quantify these words, then made some rules up to standardize it. Some other person or committee will inevitably come to a different conclusion. And then they will argue and try to force one's standard on the other because clearly 'my conclusion is better than yours'. Now, we can continue to discuss who's committee is more right, but politics is frowned on here.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Define "safe". How do you certify someone to determine if something is "safe"? What are the qualifications/certifications that someone needs to have in order to define what "safe" is? What are the qualifications/certifications needed to give someone the qualifications/certifications to define "safe"? And so on...

The point is that "safe" and "reliable" are relative terms. At some point a person or committee made a judgement call to define and quantify these words, then made some rules up to standardize it. Some other person or committee will inevitably come to a different conclusion. And then they will argue and try to force one's standard on the other because clearly 'my conclusion is better than yours'. Now, we can continue to discuss who's committee is more right, but politics is frowned on here.

Fun fact #289
Although Po likes to cite random and irrelevant people as experts and attempts to discredit people that actually do have training and extensive experience in a subject matter he has never, ever, even once, provided his own experience, training and credentials to support his viewpoints.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Fun fact #289
Although Po likes to cite random and irrelevant people as experts and attempts to discredit people that actually do have training and extensive experience in a subject matter he has never, ever, even once, provided his own experience, training and credentials to support his viewpoints.

Fun fact #290
I seem to have missed out on 288 fun facts and am feeling very left out thinking about all the fun I could have had with those facts.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Fun fact #290
I seem to have missed out on 288 fun facts and am feeling very left out thinking about all the fun I could have had with those facts.

Oh sorry. Got out of sync. 1 through 287 don't happen for a couple years yet. The continuity guy is going to get a stern talking to.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh sorry. Got out of sync. 1 through 287 don't happen for a couple years yet. The continuity guy is going to get a stern talking to.

Well played.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Fun fact #290
I seem to have missed out on 288 fun facts and am feeling very left out thinking about all the fun I could have had with those facts.

........ oh, just go with #289 ....... if replied to, that ought to provide enough fodder for a while ......


humfrz

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Define "safe". How do you certify someone to determine if something is "safe"? What are the qualifications/certifications that someone needs to have in order to define what "safe" is? What are the qualifications/certifications needed to give someone the qualifications/certifications to define "safe"? And so on...

The point is that "safe" and "reliable" are relative terms. At some point a person or committee made a judgement call to define and quantify these words, then made some rules up to standardize it. Some other person or committee will inevitably come to a different conclusion. And then they will argue and try to force one's standard on the other because clearly 'my conclusion is better than yours'. Now, we can continue to discuss who's committee is more right, but politics is frowned on here.

It doesn't matter. It is much safer to have rules and regulations than to have nothing at all. Otherwise we live in a jungle and everyone does what he wants, everyone sells what he wants and so on.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Certification don't mean shit. I have met some really crappy certfied people in my day. Even if it did mean something the dealers here have Certified tech's that can indeed do all safety inspections. The same guy that installs the parts can sign off on the safety.

The same guy? LOL. Who will admit that he didn't do a good work? In such cases you really need different people to make the checks.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It doesn't matter. It is much safer to have rules and regulations than to have nothing at all. Otherwise we live in a jungle and everyone does what he wants, everyone sells what he wants and so on.

It doesn't mean that you have to agree with them all or that they are good laws to begin with.

I wonder what a passing grade is for a "certified" tech?