$1300 to repair FRS for bad gas, does that sound right?

[pauldz]

Originally Posted by Trollhart

Maybe you can have a look at the internals of the replaced fuel pump?
If it does look clogged up, or it was painted with shiny enamel, you might have something to support this theory.

Thanks for the reply. They did not give me the old fuel pump, and I don't think they even replaced it. The $161.59 in parts is broken down as follows:
4 spark plugs at $18.99 each
gas $20.00
00053-00100 top eng/induct sv $35.88
00289-1PF14 pressurized efi 1 $29.75

What are the "top eng/induct sv" and "pressurized efi 1"? Based on google searches, it seems these are just cleaning products.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by pauldz

Thanks for the reply. They did not give me the old fuel pump, and I don't think they even replaced it. The $161.59 in parts is broken down as follows:
4 spark plugs at $18.99 each
gas $20.00
00053-00100 top eng/induct sv $35.88
00289-1PF14 pressurized efi 1 $29.75

What are the "top eng/induct sv" and "pressurized efi 1"? Based on google searches, it seems these are just cleaning products.

So basically you paid 1300 for new plugs and a fuel injector/top end clean.

[finch1750]

Maybe call the state inspector back and see if they will take your sample of the gas to see how it tests?

[pauldz]

Originally Posted by ermax

So basically you paid 1300 for new plugs and a fuel injector/top end clean.

Actually closer to $1400, to be precise it was $1386.95. Based on google searches, it seems that "fuel injector/top end cleaning" simply means putting an additive into the fuel.

I do understand that it is difficult and expensive ($700) to change the spark plugs in an FRS but it still seems like a lot.

So many questions...

1) If the fuel was not bad, why wouldn't my car start? The inspector said he gets at least 10 calls when there is bad gas and this time no other complaints about this station were made. I will ask him to check the sample I received from Toyota.

2) Can the shop truly detect bad gas, bad spark plugs, etc., or were they just guessing?

3) Even assuming it was necessary to raise the engine and fuel tank to change the plugs and clean the top end/fuel injector, how long does that take? Is $1121.85 for labor reasonable?

[ermax]

Originally Posted by pauldz

Actually closer to $1400, to be precise it was $1386.95. Based on google searches, it seems that "fuel injector/top end cleaning" simply means putting an additive into the fuel.

I do understand that it is difficult and expensive ($700) to change the spark plugs in an FRS but it still seems like a lot.

So many questions...

1) If the fuel was not bad, why wouldn't my car start? The inspector said he gets at least 10 calls when there is bad gas and this time no other complaints about this station were made. I will ask him to check the sample I received from Toyota.

2) Can the shop truly detect bad gas, bad spark plugs, etc., or were they just guessing?

3) Even assuming it was necessary to raise the engine and fuel tank to change the plugs and clean the top end/fuel injector, how long does that take? Is $1121.85 for labor reasonable?

I could see the shop detecting diesel or water in the gas but that is it. I doubt they removed the tank to drain it. Probably just removed the rear seat (easy) and then pumped the fuel out via the access holes. $700 seems to be a typical rate for the plugs regardless of how ridiculous it is. So take $700 off the $1400 for the plugs and your left with $700 to drain the fuel and a top end cleaning. Exactly what they did to clean I don't know. Probably some in the tank, some in the vacuum lines and then pumped that injector cleaner through the injectors.

I'm glad I do all my own work. I've saved enough over the years to buy an entire car.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by pauldz

Actually closer to $1400, to be precise it was $1386.95. Based on google searches, it seems that "fuel injector/top end cleaning" simply means putting an additive into the fuel.

I do understand that it is difficult and expensive ($700) to change the spark plugs in an FRS but it still seems like a lot.

So many questions...

1) If the fuel was not bad, why wouldn't my car start? The inspector said he gets at least 10 calls when there is bad gas and this time no other complaints about this station were made. I will ask him to check the sample I received from Toyota.

2) Can the shop truly detect bad gas, bad spark plugs, etc., or were they just guessing?

3) Even assuming it was necessary to raise the engine and fuel tank to change the plugs and clean the top end/fuel injector, how long does that take? Is $1121.85 for labor reasonable?

Well, now, pauldz, I have a feeling that you are thrashing this after action report a bit too much. Or, to put it another way, doing an autopsy on the autopsy.

Yes, that sample you have could be analyzed (torn apart) by GC (gas chromatography) or HPLC (High Pressure Liquid Chromatography) ...... IF the chemist had an idea of what they were looking for (like water or diesel).

Like @Trollhart mentioned, a mass spectrometer could tell you more than you ever wanted to know about the sample.

However, the first problem with the results of that an extensive of analysis might just reflect errors in the sampling technique (not representative) or the maintaining of the sample after it was taken.

It wouldn't hurt to ask the station rep to have your sample analyzed, although I doubt they will do it (since they didn't take the sample).

How can the dealership detect "bad gas". Well, unless they have a lab in their back room, they probably just did a visual and sniff test. A simple test kit can test for alcohol or water in the gasoline ....... maybe they used one of those ..??

As far as the fuel system "cleaning", usually they just inject some cleaner into the fuel system, just before the injectors and dump the rest of it in the gas tank.

My point is that what is done is done. I would suggest that you just chalk it up to an "experience" and move forward and enjoy driving your car ......


humfrz

[pcguru2000]

I would handle this differently.

1. Find out who the owner of record is, go to florida state corporation search website. Make sure you get a list of the corporation officers (and the address to serve them)

2. Write a letter of demand to the gas station owner. Include copies of your receipt from the gas station, and the invoice of repair. Tell him that the gas sample was analyzed and found to be bad. Send this letter certified mail return receipt.

3. Wait 30 days for a response. If he responds telling you to go F. yourself go to step 4. If there's no response go to step 4.

4. File a small claims lawsuit for the amount of repairs, the cost of the gas you paid at the pump, any car rental expense, loss work, etc (but not punitive). Also subpoena the dealership senior mechanic that worked on the car. He's going to be your expert witness. Make sure you have the sheriff/police/court server one of the officers of the company that owns that mobile station and also serve the mechanic to have him/her testify to the damages in their expert opinion.

If this is a mom and pop station, they probably only have 2 or 3 corporate officers and none of them should be attorney. In small claims court, you cannot bring an attorney nor can they. So make sure you have the list of corporate officers the day of the hearing because if an attorney shows up or anyone that is not an officer of the corporation, make a motion for summary judgment. You win.

Before you file the suit, I would have an honest conversation with the dealership and tell them you are going to sue the gas station. Inform them that you are going to subpoena their mechanic to testify on your behalf.

Now here's the cool part, if you lose because the defendant has the evidence showing it was not bad gas and that you got ripped off by the dealership, this is also great.
You then request transcript from small claims and all the defendant evidence to the contrary that the gas was not bad. You then turn all that in to Toyota for reconsideration under warranty since 1. There was no bad gas. 2. There was nothing found that you did wrong at the time and this was a bad diagnosis which cost you money. If they won't pay sue the dealership for breach of contract, fraud, etc.

Things to consider. Anything else wrong with your vehicle may get blamed on the "bad gas" that happened already. So you are still not out of the woods. If you sue the dealership, you probably won't be going back there again so if that's the only dealership within 100 miles, it's up to you.

***disclaimer***
This is not legal advice. This is only an opinion based on the facts presented here and analyzed based on California law. Florida law may be different and may have more or less restrictions on evidence rules in small claims, or have tighter or looser restrictions on compensatory damages, etc. Always check with free or paid legal services about your legal exposure and procedures as described above. There should be attorneys that will allow you to have a free consultation and give you a better picture of the pros and cons of legal action. Also even if you do we in small claims, you will still need to find a way to collect what they owe you. Make sure you speak to an attorney about this too.

[finch1750]

^that sounds fairly efficient way to sort through the BS actually.

[pcguru2000]

I forgot to mention, if it is determined that the dealership was at fault, by court decree and pauldz paid with a credit card. You could use that court decree to force the credit card company to do a charge back so easy peassy collection. :-) Or if you are really ticked off, and the dealership won't pay you back, have the sheriff put a lock on their door until they pay you. That would hurt them more in business than actually paying the $1800. This should also protect you from collections for the chargeback as long as you have a court order.


***disclaimer***
This is not legal advice. This is only an opinion based on the facts presented here and analyzed based on California law. Florida law may be different and may have more or less restrictions on evidence rules in small claims, or have tighter or looser restrictions on compensatory damages, etc. Always check with free or paid legal services about your legal exposure and procedures as described above. There should be attorneys that will allow you to have a free consultation and give you a better picture of the pros and cons of legal action. Also even if you do we in small claims, you will still need to find a way to collect what they owe you. Make sure you speak to an attorney about this too.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by finch1750

^that sounds fairly efficient way to sort through the BS actually.

Sure. If there was anyway to know if the gas is actually bad and to prove it came from that station. We don't even know what "bad" gas means in this case. The station was given an all clear and there are no other complaints on file so what is any realistic judge going to say? One car doesn't get gas bad enough that $5 worth is going to cause harm but nobody else has a complaint.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by pcguru2000

I would handle this differently.

This is not legal advice. This is only an opinion based on the facts presented here and analyzed based on California law. Florida law may be different and may have more or less restrictions on evidence rules in small claims, or have tighter or looser restrictions on compensatory damages, etc. ...........

YIKES! ....... no wonder California is all fucked up ........


humfrz

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by finch1750

^that sounds fairly efficient way to sort through the BS actually.

.......and this coming from another Californian !!....... SMH


humfrz

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by humfrz

.......and this coming from another Californian !!....... SMH


humfrz

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Sure. If there was anyway to know if the gas is actually bad and to prove it came from that station. We don't even know what "bad" gas means in this case. The station was given an all clear and there are no other complaints on file so what is any realistic judge going to say? One car doesn't get gas bad enough that $5 worth is going to cause harm but nobody else has a complaint.

A demand letter is usually all it takes. Not saying OP would win but SC court costs are low. If he feels the dealership really was out of line this would be the legal way to get proof.


I mean I wouldn't have paid the dealership to begin with since this seems all sorts of strange so maybe just chalk it up to lesson learned.

[Qwimby1]

Originally Posted by pcguru2000

I forgot to mention, if it is determined that the dealership was at fault, by court decree and pauldz paid with a credit card. You could use that court decree to force the credit card company to do a charge back so easy peassy collection. :-) Or if you are really ticked off, and the dealership won't pay you back, have the sheriff put a lock on their door until they pay you. That would hurt them more in business than actually paying the $1800. This should also protect you from collections for the chargeback as long as you have a court order.


***disclaimer***
This is not legal advice. This is only an opinion based on the facts presented here and analyzed based on California law. Florida law may be different and may have more or less restrictions on evidence rules in small claims, or have tighter or looser restrictions on compensatory damages, etc. Always check with free or paid legal services about your legal exposure and procedures as described above. There should be attorneys that will allow you to have a free consultation and give you a better picture of the pros and cons of legal action. Also even if you do we in small claims, you will still need to find a way to collect what they owe you. Make sure you speak to an attorney about this too.

I once had a bill close to $6,000 for service on a Ferrari 308, which ran like crap afterward. I had a mechanic I know examine and repair the car. He also took several pics of sloppy work and some work that was not done at all. I presented that to Mastercard, which pulled the $6000 out of the first shop's account and credited it back to me. I almost wrote a check for the work, but decided on the card at the last minute. I think that was in the back of my mind at the time. I later settled with the shop for $4000, although Mastercard told me I was under no obligation to do so. I imagine he would have come after me, but would have had to settle for less anyway.