Engine Braking or lack thereof

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by arren123

It's not necessarily from downshifting from 3rd to 2nd.
You can you rev up to 7000 rpms in second gear and let go of the gas and let the dang thing engine brake. It's well within it's normal operating range.
Can someone confirm that has a 2017 Manual if they experience the same thing I described?

It has to do with the tune.

To engine brake the car shuts off the injectors so you're not burning fuel, more of a gas savings design than related to driving experience.

I would assume at 6k+ rpms the engine isn't expecting to be asked 'time to save fuel!' so the changeover to fuel saving mode isn't instantaneous.

Even if I'm wrong it's nothing to worry about, I bet most cars would feel the same if you tried a similar manuever as you have told the car "go fast!" by blipping the throttle and revving up to the top of the range and then fractions of a second later you're telling it "go slow!"


Computers are fast, not mind readers.

[NoHaveMSG]

If it's not engine braking you are giving it too many revs on your blip. I have shift locked and spun due to missing my gas pedal and can assure you it has plenty of engine breaking.

[TommyW]

Brakes are for braking. Use THEM for that purpose and not your gearbox.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by arren123

It's not necessarily from downshifting from 3rd to 2nd.
You can you rev up to 7000 rpms in second gear and let go of the gas and let the dang thing engine brake. It's well within it's normal operating range.
Can someone confirm that has a 2017 Manual if they experience the same thing I described?

People love to cruise in 3rd on the interstate... we've got a 300 page thread on that topic but now everyone is appalled that someone would be questioning engine braking at 7K. Hahaha. Anyways, I have a 2013 manual and I've never noticed the hang you are referring to. But you already stated you had a 2013 in the past and didn't experience this. They must have changed something on the 2017. I've been in other cars that will hang the revs so you don't have to rush a shift before the revs drop. I hate crap like this. Maybe they've done something like this on the 2017?

[HKz]

i dont get the engine brake nazis? if you do it right, it isn't abusing the trans/motor.

as for op, ive never felt a lack of engine brake with either trans no matter what rpm so it is odd..i would like to see op's technique on how he is achieving his downshift and a view of his tach ^^

[arren123]

Originally Posted by HKz

i dont get the engine brake nazis? if you do it right, it isn't abusing the trans/motor.

as for op, ive never felt a lack of engine brake with either trans no matter what rpm so it is odd..i would like to see op's technique on how he is achieving his downshift and a view of his tach ^^

You basically memorize the max speed of the gears.. I know with the Integra Type R the max is 40 mph in 1st gear, 60 in 2nd gear, and 78 3rd gear.
I know that with a 2017 BRZ with the new gearing, it tops out around 56-ish mph in 2nd gear. So down shifting in to 2nd gear around 56 mph brings you around 7000 rpms.

Knowing that there's a weird issue engine braking from 7000 rpms, it's easy to glance down at the tach when it feels like it is still coasting rather than braking.. It happening around 6000 -7000 rpms. Engine braking from 6000 rpms and lower feels normal.

From 7000 rpms, it feels like it is engine braking, then coasting with a tiny bit of gas, and then engine braking again as the rpms drop.

It is an unsettling feeling that the car is still coasting when you are calculating in your head how fast the car should be slowing down.

If someone with a 2017 can confirm that it is happening with them, I can speculate that it is something with the stock tune that they added.

I'll try and max out 2nd gear and letting it engine brake rather than down shifting. It'll be easier to check the tach.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by HKz

i dont get the engine brake nazis? if you do it right, it isn't abusing the trans/motor............

humfrz

[HKz]

Originally Posted by arren123

You basically memorize the max speed of the gears.. I know with the Integra Type R the max is 40 mph in 1st gear, 60 in 2nd gear, and 78 3rd gear.
I know that with a 2017 BRZ with the new gearing, it tops out around 56-ish mph in 2nd gear. So down shifting in to 2nd gear around 56 mph brings you around 7000 rpms.

Knowing that there's a weird issue engine braking from 7000 rpms, it's easy to glance down at the tach when it feels like it is still coasting rather than braking.. It happening around 6000 -7000 rpms. Engine braking from 6000 rpms and lower feels normal.

From 7000 rpms, it feels like it is engine braking, then coasting with a tiny bit of gas, and then engine braking again as the rpms drop.

It is an unsettling feeling that the car is still coasting when you are calculating in your head how fast the car should be slowing down.

If someone with a 2017 can confirm that it is happening with them, I can speculate that it is something with the stock tune that they added.

I'll try and max out 2nd gear and letting it engine brake rather than down shifting. It'll be easier to check the tach.

I still want to see the theatrics with the tach especially considering you are saying you will downshift into 2nd at its max speed which would technically place you at the 7400 or so redline. Let's see how quickly your tach drops in relation to your speed..

[arren123]

Originally Posted by HKz

I still want to see the theatrics with the tach especially considering you are saying you will downshift into 2nd at its max speed which would technically place you at the 7400 or so redline. Let's see how quickly your tach drops in relation to your speed..

I'd like to see it as well. When I have the time, I'll see if I can set up a video and a datalog of rpm, speed, what else? throttle, fuel trim?

[Capt Spaulding]

Years ago I roadraced motorcycles for a few years. My scariest experience (crashing notwithstanding) was hopping on a 2 stroke yamaha after riding a 4 stroke CB750. You don't know what NO ENGINE BRAKING is until you've ridden/driven a 2 stroke.

One of the more interesting developments in the MOTOGP world were attempts to eliminate engine braking. Seems like when you have between 0 and 5 pounds of weight on the rear wheel, you'd rather the engine not add any resistance.

Edit. That said, I'd recommend re-thinking one's driving style.If you down shift at the point that places the engine at or very near redline in the lower gear, you have nothing left above that. The reason I downshift is to find useable power not added braking. On the race bikes the goal was to downshift to put the revs at between 8000 and 8500 (10.5k RL 7000-10000 power band). If I were caning the BRZ I'd want it to be around 5500 to 6000 AFTER the downshift.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Years ago I roadraced motorcycles for a few years. My scariest experience (crashing notwithstanding) was hopping on a 2 stroke yamaha after riding a 4 stroke CB750. You don't know what NO ENGINE BRAKING is until you've ridden/driven a 2 stroke.

One of the more interesting developments in the MOTOGP world were attempts to eliminate engine braking. Seems like when you have between 0 and 5 pounds of weight on the rear wheel, you'd rather the engine not add any resistance.

Edit. That said, I'd recommend re-thinking one's driving style.If you down shift at the point that places the engine at or very near redline in the lower gear, you have nothing left above that. The reason I downshift is to find useable power not added braking. On the race bikes the goal was to downshift to put the revs at between 8000 and 8500 (10.5k RL 7000-10000 power band). If I were caning the BRZ I'd want it to be around 5500 to 6000 AFTER the downshift.

Not only that but if your cut it too close and mechanically over rev it will lock the rear tires which is always fun... especially mid turn. I used to own a G35 6MT Sedan (hated that car) and the shifter sucked. I miss shifted a 3rd to 4th and went 3rd to 2nd at about 80mph while under heavy lateral load.. That was an eye opener.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Years ago I roadraced motorcycles for a few years. My scariest experience (crashing notwithstanding) was hopping on a 2 stroke yamaha after riding a 4 stroke CB750. You don't know what NO ENGINE BRAKING is until you've ridden/driven a 2 stroke.

One of the more interesting developments in the MOTOGP world were attempts to eliminate engine braking. Seems like when you have between 0 and 5 pounds of weight on the rear wheel, you'd rather the engine not add any resistance.

Edit. That said, I'd recommend re-thinking one's driving style.If you down shift at the point that places the engine at or very near redline in the lower gear, you have nothing left above that. The reason I downshift is to find useable power not added braking. On the race bikes the goal was to downshift to put the revs at between 8000 and 8500 (10.5k RL 7000-10000 power band). If I were caning the BRZ I'd want it to be around 5500 to 6000 AFTER the downshift.

for competitive driving perhaps, but what is wrong with downshifting back through the gears when coming up to a stop which is what the OP is doing? worst thing you can really do is put additional wear on the clutch if you aren't revv matching properly..

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by ermax

Not only that but if your cut it too close and mechanically over rev it will lock the rear tires which is always fun... especially mid turn. I used to own a G35 6MT Sedan (hated that car) and the shifter sucked. I miss shifted a 3rd to 4th and went 3rd to 2nd at about 80mph while under heavy lateral load.. That was an eye opener.

Haven't we all done that ...... at least once ......

The first, and last time I did that, was in my 1937 Chev pickup. I was lucky that the ditch along that farm road was wide ...... and a farmer (with a chain) was working the field nearby .......

Usually I find myself gently downshifting (engine braking) when coming to stops. Why? Hell, I don't know .... maybe it's out of habit from the old days, when my half worn out brakes needed all the help they could get ...... or, maybe I just like to listen to the exhaust sounds ......


humfrz

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by HKz

for competitive driving perhaps, but what is wrong with downshifting back through the gears when coming up to a stop which is what the OP is doing? worst thing you can really do is put additional wear on the clutch if you aren't revv matching properly..

If that's what some one wants to do, that's fine. It's their car. I don't track mine and it's been several decades since I rolled a wheel at speed on a track. For my purposes (and admittedly, mine only) I still use gear selection as a means of controlling the amount power available balanced against the likelihood of needing that power balanced against the amount of racket I'm willing to make and the amount of attention I'm trying to avoid.

I'm sure it's a driving style preference (and perhaps age) related decision. I prefer traveling as briskly as I want while generating as little drama as possible. Not everyone rolls the same way (pun intended). In my BRZ the only impediment(s) to that are the damn tires. At anything approaching a sporting pace they scream like slit pigs. So far, I've been too frugal/cheap to replace them.