Transmission shifting when cold?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by highway7

This. One thing I notice on this forum are 86 owners who can't criticize the car one bit.

Yes you can 'fix' the 2nd gear cold weather lock out as a driver by;
-Double clutching to 2nd
-Shifting out of 1st earlier at a lower RPM
-Avoiding 2nd and lug in 3rd for a few seconds
-Drive slowly for 5-10 mins for the fluid to warm up
-etc etc etc

But why should we have to do any of this on a supposedly 'sports car' where smooth shifting is essential; when my 14 year old civic (Economy car) can be shifted with a pinky finger at -35C into any gear at any RPM?

Some of you fanboys are so delusional that the torque valley dip which is incredibly noticeable at anything above 50% throttle is a 'feature' to you

Don't get me wrong, I love my FRS and would buy it again, but not addressing the faults this car has and blaming owners for 'not being able to drive' for voicing out their perfectly valid complains is just damn childish.

Your 14 year old Civic has a sloppy crap FWD tranny and about 6 links to take up the stress. There is nothing "wrong" with the transmissions on these cars. It is a nice tight tranny that takes a few minutes to warm up. Simple as that. They could indeed make it work better in the cold by opening up the tolerances but then everybody would whine about how sloppy it is.
Understanding this very simple concept does not make anybody saying it is not a problem a fanboi nor delusional. If the whiners can have a voice why the fuck can't the people that have an opposing viewpoint express it without being call childish fanbois?

Oh and if the torque dip is that big a problem and so noticeable then you are indeed driving the car wrong. It is a tenth of a second minor reduction of torque while accelerating if you are in the right gear at the right time.

[Zentec]

Thank you Tcoat

[NRXRaptor]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Your 14 year old Civic has a sloppy crap FWD tranny and about 6 links to take up the stress. There is nothing "wrong" with the transmissions on these cars. It is a nice tight tranny that takes a few minutes to warm up. Simple as that. They could indeed make it work better in the cold by opening up the tolerances but then everybody would whine about how sloppy it is.
Understanding this very simple concept does not make anybody saying it is not a problem a fanboi nor delusional. If the whiners can have a voice why the fuck can't the people that have an opposing viewpoint express it without being call childish fanbois?

Oh and if the torque dip is that big a problem and so noticeable then you are indeed driving the car wrong. It is a tenth of a second minor reduction of torque while accelerating if you are in the right gear at the right time.

I disagree on the torque dip. I don't always want to be at 5000 rpm. Its not like it goes away by warming up. Imo some complaints about the car being slow would be gone if the torque dip was killed, but I think it is mostly because the car's looks don't match up with its straight line speed. Its good at going around corners, but going around corners quickly is waaay scarier than redlining the tach on an onramp or something. If you want to do that I'd get a muscle car. Muscle cars are cool and torque is fun

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If the whiners can have a voice why the fuck can't the people that have an opposing viewpoint express it without being call childish fanbois?

...

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh and if the torque dip is that big a problem and so noticeable then you are indeed driving the car wrong.

Because these are fanboy remarks. The reason I think the torque dip is bollocks is because I drive the car wrong? I'm horse laughing over here.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gtengr

...



Because these are fanboi remarks. The reason I think the torque dip is bollocks is because I drive the car wrong? I'm horse laughing over here.

You have a very good torque curve up to the "dip". You have a very brief period where torque drops off (it doesn't stop it is still there). You have an excellent curve above that. There is a huge range in which the "dip" isn't even present and when you do it hit it in heavy acceleration it comes and goes in a fraction of a second. If you insist on driving in that narrow band where it occurs then that is on you not the car.
If thinking people that understand this makes you horse laugh then you are actually at the wrong end of the horse.

[Pat]

Tcoat, the problem is that dip is right where many people naturally spend most of the driving a car. Not just twins, but any manual transmission car. You're absolutely right about the rest of the curve (80%?) being just fine. But when one naturally uses that 20% range 50% of the time, it becomes a bigger issue.
One can say the driver should be above or below the torque dip, but the fact is, for many people that's just not natural. And for someone like me that lives at 6,000 feet, driving it below 3,500 revs all the time just doesn't work. That leaves me with shifting near redline all the time to keep it above the torque dip. In my opinion that is unreasonable.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You have a very good torque curve up to the "dip". You have a very brief period where torque drops off (it doesn't stop it is still there). You have an excellent curve above that. There is a huge range in which the "dip" isn't even present and when you do it hit it in heavy acceleration it comes and goes in a fraction of a second. If you insist on driving in that narrow band where it occurs then that is on you not the car.
If thinking people that understand this makes you horse laugh then you are actually at the wrong end of the horse.

Flatter torque curves are superior. That you're happy driving around the dip doesn't mean it's not a negative characteristic. The car is much more enjoyable to run through the mid range without it. It's preferable to have an option other than short shifting or redlining.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gtengr

Flatter torque curves are superior. That you're happy driving around the dip doesn't mean it's not a negative characteristic. The car is much more enjoyable to run through the mid range without it. It's preferable to have an option other than short shifting or redlining.

It also doesn't make me or anybody else a fanboi when we say we don't have an issue with it. I find the car perfectly enjoyable even with the "dip" and it has not once interfered with my day to day driving.

[Pat]

I love the car, just like you. In fact, if I had to buy a new car right now I wouldn't think twice. I'd get another twin. I think the issue we have is with comments ignoring the torque dip or accusing us of being poor drivers. Acknowledge the dip, then appreciate the car as a whole knowing there are always good and bad attributes to every car. But don't stick your head in the sand and criticize others' ability to drive. Especially when you know nothing about them or their driving experience. That just makes you look like a complete imbecile.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It also doesn't make me or anybody else a fanboi when we say we don't have an issue with it.

Well you didn't say that you don't have an issue with it, you said I'm driving the car wrong, hence the fanboy comments.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I find the car perfectly enjoyable even with the "dip" and it has not once interfered with my day to day driving.

This isn't the Camry forum though. I have no interest in testing my complacency with easily fixable negatives like the torque dip. If you want to defend it that's up to you, but it's not a desirable feature in and of itself. It's just something that you've decided you can live with.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Pat

I love the car, just like you. In fact, if I had to buy a new car right now I wouldn't think twice. I'd get another twin. I think the issue we have is with comments ignoring the torque dip or accusing us of being poor drivers. Acknowledge the dip, then appreciate the car as a whole knowing there are always good and bad attributes to every car. But don't stick your head in the sand and criticize others' ability to drive. Especially when you know nothing about them or their driving experience. That just makes you look like a complete imbecile.

Sort of works both ways. If the dip interferes with how you drive then fine but calling others complacent and fanboi because it does not is just pure arrogance. If people want to make such extreme comments then I can reply with the other extreme.


The dip is not the huge issue that some make it out to be. There are people claiming that it stops them from merging or passing. In those cases they simply can not be driving correctly.

[Lantanafrs2]

I eliminated the torque dip. Much better now. These things sound like sawmills under the hood so it's nice to not have to rev the piss out of it.

[Lantanafrs2]

With header and e85 I never need to go past 5k on the tach.

[HKz]

..reading about the torque dip has officially become worse than reading about politics/religion...it is too easy to complain about the power, yall bought the wrong car folks. you need to fork over more cash to get the best of both worlds agility & power, otherwise stop the cryin...



...as for the trans, I like the fact that it is clunky when cold *gasp* it actually feels mechanical