Newb with questions vs. RF & Abarth

[finch1750]

OP: Test drive both. The 17+ has a much bigger difference out of the box then prior due to the MT only getting the power changes plus an even shorter final drive. It feels just as fast if not faster then my MY13 AT with added power mods.


Tell the dealer you want an extended test drive to really get a feel for it. If they won't let you find a different dealer. Then get whichever one puts the bigger smile on your face.


My other car is a MR2 Spyder which is less useful then even a soft top ND since the MR2 has no trunk. You have a jeep which would make this less of a problem if you need cargo space. But with a kid having a backseat just in case might be a good option.

Originally Posted by MRCA1ST

Header and tune won't void your warranty, but depending on what route you take you might have issues with emissions if that is a thing where you live. Cost for that setup varies from roughly $1200-$3000+ depending on brand/cats/custom vs OTS tune/etc

Kinda misleading. If you blow your engine and have a header and tune I would be shocked for that to not be insta-denied. It would then be on you to try and prove otherwise. But if your shocks blew they couldn't blame it on the power mods.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by finch1750

OP: Test drive both. The 17+ has a much bigger difference out of the box then prior due to the MT only getting the power changes plus an even shorter final drive. It feels just as fast if not faster then my MY13 AT with added power mods.


Tell the dealer you want an extended test drive to really get a feel for it. If they won't let you find a different dealer. Then get whichever one puts the bigger smile on your face.


My other car is a MR2 Spyder which is less useful then even a soft top ND since the MR2 has no trunk. You have a jeep which would make this less of a problem if you need cargo space. But with a kid having a backseat just in case might be a good option.





Kinda misleading. If you blow your engine and have a header and tune I would be shocked for that to not be insta-denied. It would then be on you to try and prove otherwise. But if your shocks blew they couldn't blame it on the power mods.

I wish I've driven both MY17 and MY13-16, but from someone I know personally, they have claimed the MY17 to almost feel like a different car, especially compared to the AT. I guess that would depend on how sensitive you are to some of these things though.

[MRCA1ST]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Kinda misleading. If you blow your engine and have a header and tune I would be shocked for that to not be insta-denied.

Good point, if you blow your motor definitely go back to stock before taking it to the dealer. If you install the header yourself, swapping it back to stock will not take long. I did mine in conjunction with some other stuff, but I can't imagine it would take me more than an hour to swap the stock header back in.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

I wish I've driven both MY17 and MY13-16, but from someone I know personally, they have claimed the MY17 to almost feel like a different car, especially compared to the AT. I guess that would depend on how sensitive you are to some of these things though.

It was enough to make me considering upgrading lol.

[Xxyion]

Out of the three the Fiat Abarth Spider felt the fastest as its basically the ND Miata (exact same interior) but with a turbo. And with the car only weighing just over 2000 lbs, 150 hp with around 150-160 tq feels amazing. But as everyone else has already said. Test drive all three and see which one puts a bigger smile on your face.

[airjonny]

Big fan of the RF and the Abarth (especially with the Monza exhaust), but the twins are much easier to justify as a daily.

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I lived in Austin for two years, so I'm familiar with the traffic. It's ridiculous.

But I have a manual BRZ and an automatic Jeep, and I found the manual to be much better in heavy traffic than the automatic. With the auto, I had to have my foot on the gas or the brake pretty much all the time. Traffic was never the right speed where I could just coast in the Jeep. In contrast, with the manual, I could take it out of gear and coast slower than idle speed without having to ride the brake or accelerator. Or I could put it in first and creep along as low as 6 MPH in gear, which the auto wouldn't do without speeding up and forcing me to brake. I had so many more options with the manual that it was actually less work and less frustrating.

The only situation in which I have ever wished I had an auto was going uphill in stop and go traffic on the I-10 bridge over the Mississippi outside Baton Rouge. That probably took 1000 miles off the clutch and was annoying as hell. But I never had that problem in Austin, even with the hills it has, because the hill approaches weren't nearly as long before traffic would move again.

Maybe things are different for you, but I just don't see heavy traffic as a valid reason on its own to avoid the manual. I think a lot of potential new owners who don't have a lot of experience driving a manual see these comments and become afraid of the manual unnecessarily.

Interesting. How slow can you go in MT without stalling? I drive up 2222 everyday, pretty huge hill with traffic. I’m certainly not closing door on manual, part of me loves idea, just have very little experience. Does irk me that MT gets worse mpg since I’m wanting good mpg in next vehicle.

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by GalloVecchio

Excellent point my friend.

My Abarth was assembled in Mexico. Not exactly the Mecca of Motorsports, but I expected the build quality to be much better.

Mexico? Japan with Miata. Same plant. Designed in Italy, put together in Japan. Interior nicer than Miata, seats, steering wheel.

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

Out of the three the Fiat Abarth Spider felt the fastest as its basically the ND Miata (exact same interior) but with a turbo. And with the car only weighing just over 2000 lbs, 150 hp with around 150-160 tq feels amazing. But as everyone else has already said. Test drive all three and see which one puts a bigger smile on your face.

Oh I’ve driven ND and Abarth, just never twins.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

How slow can you go in MT without stalling?

I never cruise below 1000 RPM, which is about 6 MPH in first, and I only do that on flat ground where the load is light. I never try to climb a hill that slowly, because the engine doesn't have enough torque to do that safely and you'll lug it. It ain't a diesel. If traffic is moving too slow up a hill, I'll clutch in and out as necessary to ease it along.

It's very easy to get into a driver-induced oscillation at low speed and start bucking. People think it's the car bucking, but it's not. It's the driver. At low speeds small inputs make bigger changes than at higher speeds. Because this car's throttle is so responsive, a slight sudden change on the accelerator can make it buck. You take off too fast, you let off too quickly, you take off too fast again, and very shortly you're behind the car trying to catch up but causing it to turn into a bull ride. You have to use a light foot and drive through the bucking until you smooth out.

Traffic will not want to cooperate, especially in places like Texas where dipshits tailgate out of a desperate fear someone will manage to get in front of them and "beat" them at traffic. You'll find your groove, some guy will slow down, some tailgating fool will slam on his brakes, and you'll have to stop. Then the guy up front takes off, the guy in front of you slams down the accelerator out of fear someone will get in front of him, and you'll have a big gap in front of you that is difficult to resist sprinting through to the next dead stop.

Instead, you have to read traffic and find the average speed, then just ease your foot up and down as necessary to try to stay close to that average. You'll leave a big gap at times, and people will jump into it. Fuck 'em. Let 'em do it. People behind you will also get mad when you leave a gap and tailgate you. Fuck 'em. Let 'em do it. You'll also have to clutch in sometimes when the idiot tailgaters have to stop. Fuck it, just coast in, then remember to leave some room when they all sprint forward again, because they're just going to stop again in 100 feet. If you time it right, you won't have to.

If you watch several cars ahead of you so you can see what's coming, pretty soon you'll be easing along in a nice slow crawl without ever having to hit your brakes. If you can't see the cars themselves because of the brodozer in front of you, watch their shadows off to the side. When you see a dipshit tailgater's shadow slam to a halt up ahead, ease off the accelerator and start increasing your gap so that you don't have to stop.

I make a game out of seeing how little I can use my brakes in traffic. It REALLY smooths out the experience and makes it a lot less annoying. If everyone would do it, traffic would actually move faster. And it's a lot easier to do in a manual than in an automatic.

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

I drive up 2222 everyday, pretty huge hill with traffic.

I know that road. It's pretty annoying, but not enough that it would make me want to give up the manual.

[Spuds]

^^^ pretend I'm quoting that.

Wiser and truer words about driving in traffic have never been spoken. Also applies to folks with AT. If everyone drove like that, there wouldn't be any traffic to begin with.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Also applies to folks with AT.

The traffic strategy is similar. But with a manual, you're always either driving the car or resting. With an automatic in heavy traffic, the car is driving you, and you end up using the brake to hold it back from doing what it really wants to do. To me, working against the car to constantly hold it back is a lot more tedious than working with the car.

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I never cruise below 1000 RPM, which is about 6 MPH in first, and I only do that on flat ground where the load is light. I never try to climb a hill that slowly, because the engine doesn't have enough torque to do that safely and you'll lug it. It ain't a diesel. If traffic is moving too slow up a hill, I'll clutch in and out as necessary to ease it along.

It's very easy to get into a driver-induced oscillation at low speed and start bucking. People think it's the car bucking, but it's not. It's the driver. At low speeds small inputs make bigger changes than at higher speeds. Because this car's throttle is so responsive, a slight sudden change on the accelerator can make it buck. You take off too fast, you let off too quickly, you take off too fast again, and very shortly you're behind the car trying to catch up but causing it to turn into a bull ride. You have to use a light foot and drive through the bucking until you smooth out.

Traffic will not want to cooperate, especially in places like Texas where dipshits tailgate out of a desperate fear someone will manage to get in front of them and "beat" them at traffic. You'll find your groove, some guy will slow down, some tailgating fool will slam on his brakes, and you'll have to stop. Then the guy up front takes off, the guy in front of you slams down the accelerator out of fear someone will get in front of him, and you'll have a big gap in front of you that is difficult to resist sprinting through to the next dead stop.

Instead, you have to read traffic and find the average speed, then just ease your foot up and down as necessary to try to stay close to that average. You'll leave a big gap at times, and people will jump into it. Fuck 'em. Let 'em do it. People behind you will also get mad when you leave a gap and tailgate you. Fuck 'em. Let 'em do it. You'll also have to clutch in sometimes when the idiot tailgaters have to stop. Fuck it, just coast in, then remember to leave some room when they all sprint forward again, because they're just going to stop again in 100 feet. If you time it right, you won't have to.

If you watch several cars ahead of you so you can see what's coming, pretty soon you'll be easing along in a nice slow crawl without ever having to hit your brakes. If you can't see the cars themselves because of the brodozer in front of you, watch their shadows off to the side. When you see a dipshit tailgater's shadow slam to a halt up ahead, ease off the accelerator and start increasing your gap so that you don't have to stop.

I make a game out of seeing how little I can use my brakes in traffic. It REALLY smooths out the experience and makes it a lot less annoying. If everyone would do it, traffic would actually move faster. And it's a lot easier to do in a manual than in an automatic.



I know that road. It's pretty annoying, but not enough that it would make me want to give up the manual.

lol, nice write up. Liking this site and people much more than Miata forum. They are sensitive over anything you say. You are right, idiots here ride ass everywhere I go and it’s super annoying. But it’s everywhere, had guy with Florida plates yesterday almost drive right into back of my Jeep in his Mustang which would have been a shitty problem for him more than me. Then raged and did same to multiple other drivers. Everyone’s tough behind wheel of car, unbelievable.

I’m getting sticker for back of my Jeep that says “the closer you get, the slower I go”. Anyway, I do feel like with some newer cars, possibly BRZ included you get best of both worlds with AT with paddles and manual shift lever. Everyone’s different and good they make both. I know one thing, my old man drove nothing but stick his entire life and never had knee or leg problems but when he did go AT, he never went back.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

The traffic strategy is similar. But with a manual, you're always either driving the car or resting. With an automatic in heavy traffic, the car is driving you, and you end up using the brake to hold it back from doing what it really wants to do. To me, working against the car to constantly hold it back is a lot more tedious than working with the car.

Exactly what ATs are you driving that are fighting you and trying to surge ahead? All the ones I have driven have just needed slight pressure on the brake to hold at a stop. Many need some gas to get them moving at all. I have never once felt I was fighting the car to hold it back.