P0016 on a 60k mile car

[Ultramaroon]

They aren't supposed to fall apart.

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

They aren't supposed to fall apart.

Looks like I may have found my problem then.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by rusty959

Looks like I may have found my problem then.

Well now, hang on. You had a p0016, which is bank 1 intake fail.

In your images, I see that the exhaust sprocket failed. Am I seeing that right?

Was the plate missing all along?

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Well now, hang on. You had a p0016, which is bank 1 intake fail.

In your images, I see that the exhaust sprocket failed. Am I seeing that right?

Was the plate missing all along?

the 2nd image, the one without the plate completely and "EXH" stamped is the only picture of the exhaust sprocket by itself. I believe it never had a plate based on the few pictures I have seen, including the pictures posted earlier in the thread.

the 3rd and 4th pictures with "MPL" stamped are the intake, which shows the plate in place and then not in place. Same sprocket in both pictures, the plate was in place when I first took it out, then I gently touched it, and it came off. So far it won't stay back in place.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by rusty959

the 2nd image, the one without the plate completely and "EXH" stamped is the only picture of the exhaust sprocket by itself. I believe it never had a plate based on the few pictures I have seen, including the pictures posted earlier in the thread.

the 3rd and 4th pictures with "MPL" stamped are the intake, which shows the plate in place and then not in place. Same sprocket in both pictures, the plate was in place when I first took it out, then I gently touched it, and it came off. So far it won't stay back in place.

Well, that just makes my head hurt. :/

I was sure both had the same plumbing but there aren't any punch marks on the exhaust sprocket.

[precurse]

My Subaru shop just called to say that the ECU replacement resolved the P0016 CEL code. Going to grab my car now

[TheStig85]

Originally Posted by rusty959

So an update on my situation, Subaru wanted $1600 to do more "Diagnostics" and then Subaru "might" pick up the tab, so I said no and am working on the cam sprocket myself. I've now got them out, at which point I realized I don't really know what I'm looking for. I at one point saw an image posted by I think @Element Tuning that showed the flappy spring door being messed up on the back, but can't seem to find it now.

[edit]found the post, was actually @AVOturboworld at http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2649000, and it looks similar, but not sure if it applies since it was sitting flush when I pulled it out

Anybody out there know what to look for? I can't find my snap ring pliers so can't take it any more apart tonight.


Exhaust Back:

Intake Back: Spring was in place when I pulled it out.

Then I gently touched it and it popped out like this, which reminds me of the image I saw once:


I'm probably going to replace them regardless while I'm in here, and I'll likely pull the other bank off as well just to compare, but it would be nice to know if they are or aren't broken, and if I wasn't supposed to touch that spring plate to not do it to the other side, lol.

I've never done it, but to pull those sprockets, do you need to lift the engine? Or can it be done with just a little finesse?

Also, I'm in a predicament... I have the P0016 code pop up early 2017. Replaced Sensor/OCV and ECU (for good measure... brand new one). Code went away. Here's the kicker/dumb moment. I realized after the fact, I changed out the Exhaust (lower) sensor/ocv...

Just recently the code has come back, so I switched around the OCV's and sensor on the Intake (top) to see if the code will go away... Nada. Mind you, every time I've gotten the code, my car isn't having idling issues, and seems to be running smoothly.

Only mods I have are Headers -> back, Flex fuel kit, and I run E85 90% of the time.

I'm at a loss of what to do now, aside from pulling the sprocket.

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by TheStig85

I've never done it, but to pull those sprockets, do you need to lift the engine? Or can it be done with just a little finesse?

Also, I'm in a predicament... I have the P0016 code pop up early 2017. Replaced Sensor/OCV and ECU (for good measure... brand new one). Code went away. Here's the kicker/dumb moment. I realized after the fact, I changed out the Exhaust (lower) sensor/ocv...

Just recently the code has come back, so I switched around the OCV's and sensor on the Intake (top) to see if the code will go away... Nada. Mind you, every time I've gotten the code, my car isn't having idling issues, and seems to be running smoothly.

Only mods I have are Headers -> back, Flex fuel kit, and I run E85 90% of the time.

I'm at a loss of what to do now, aside from pulling the sprocket.

You don't have to lift the engine at all, but you do have to pull headers. I also removed my upper radiator hose.

I only had idle issues with the turbo kit/tune. My tuner (@DeliciousTuning)
wasn't able to get rid of the idle dip/stall, only make it better by raising idle. Didn't realize it could be the cam sprocket until I had already decided to pull the turbo kit. Now that it's off, I haven't seen any idle dip issues, but I've only driven it 40 miles or so, all on the stock tune. If the code comes back when I replace the sprocket I'm going to see if @DeliciousTuning can just disable the code or something on a stage 1 tune, I don't want to lose the EcuTek license on this Ecu. Seems like a dumb CEL anyway.

Here is an image which gives you a pretty good idea on what all I had to remove:

[TheStig85]

Originally Posted by rusty959

You don't have to lift the engine at all, but you do have to pull headers. I also removed my upper radiator hose.

I only had idle issues with the turbo kit/tune. My tuner (@DeliciousTuning)
wasn't able to get rid of the idle dip/stall, only make it better by raising idle. Didn't realize it could be the cam sprocket until I had already decided to pull the turbo kit. Now that it's off, I haven't seen any idle dip issues, but I've only driven it 40 miles or so, all on the stock tune. If the code comes back when I replace the sprocket I'm going to see if @DeliciousTuning can just disable the code or something on a stage 1 tune, I don't want to lose the EcuTek license on this Ecu. Seems like a dumb CEL anyway.

Here is an image which gives you a pretty good idea on what all I had to remove:

You're a fucking life saver! That's a huge relief, assuming it comes down to it. Now with the P0016 code, and being at a loss, I'm guessing I should just visually inspect the sprocket to see if it's not damaged? Also, if the timing is off, how would I notice? I'm kinda new to dealing with this issue.

[TheStig85]

Originally Posted by rusty959

You don't have to lift the engine at all, but you do have to pull headers. I also removed my upper radiator hose.

I only had idle issues with the turbo kit/tune. My tuner (@DeliciousTuning)
wasn't able to get rid of the idle dip/stall, only make it better by raising idle. Didn't realize it could be the cam sprocket until I had already decided to pull the turbo kit. Now that it's off, I haven't seen any idle dip issues, but I've only driven it 40 miles or so, all on the stock tune. If the code comes back when I replace the sprocket I'm going to see if @DeliciousTuning can just disable the code or something on a stage 1 tune, I don't want to lose the EcuTek license on this Ecu. Seems like a dumb CEL anyway.

I haven't tackled this issue yet, but if I wanted to view the chain to see if the timing is off, do I have to remove the entire cover like you did?

Also, I'm guessing there would be a lot of oil drainage? If so, I'd just drain it all and do an oil change afterwards.

Not sure if you know or not, but the TSB with placing a shim on the sensor to raise it... where can that shim be purchased? It seems like 1) My timing feels fine 2) Swapped sensors and still having the same code, 3) Swapped OCVs and still same code. 4) Swapped for new ECU

Either the timing is off and barely noticeable, or the sensor spacing is throwing it off. I can't think of anything else that's causing my P0016 code. I could try asking my tuner to remove the code, but I feel like that's turning a blind eye to a potential problem down the road.

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by TheStig85

I haven't tackled this issue yet, but if I wanted to view the chain to see if the timing is off, do I have to remove the entire cover like you did?

Also, I'm guessing there would be a lot of oil drainage? If so, I'd just drain it all and do an oil change afterwards.

Not sure if you know or not, but the TSB with placing a shim on the sensor to raise it... where can that shim be purchased? It seems like 1) My timing feels fine 2) Swapped sensors and still having the same code, 3) Swapped OCVs and still same code. 4) Swapped for new ECU

Either the timing is off and barely noticeable, or the sensor spacing is throwing it off. I can't think of anything else that's causing my P0016 code. I could try asking my tuner to remove the code, but I feel like that's turning a blind eye to a potential problem down the road.

To see if your timing is off you would have to remove the cover, but if that happened your sprockets would have been incredibly damaged or some freak case that I can't imagine. Probably not the issue.

I drained my oil before pulling the cover, and once I did that I didn't have very much drain. Throw a pan or some kitty litter below and call it good.

No idea on the shim, if it were me I'd probably make my own.

You already swapped ECU's? Any chance you swapped in a broken one?

I wouldn't count completely out the chance of sprocket being damaged just because it drives fine. If it really is this spring plate thing I can image it being broken just enough that the ecu can correct enough to make it not noticeable for the most part.

[Ultramaroon]

Rusty, what did you do with the sprockets you removed?

[RedFRS4me]

I've been through this ordeal for a similar P0018. One of the cam sprocket broke just like the picture above. They had to replace that and the ECU. At first they just did the sprocket and I drove off the lot no more than a 1/4 mile the light came back on. The ECU must store the code because Toyota told me that the ECU was bad as well (out of spec?) so it had to be replaced. After that, no issues. Mine was MY'13 that were known for this issue. It was still covered under warranty so I paid nothing out of pocket. I remember forgetting the actual costs of the repair lol.

[precurse]

Originally Posted by RedFRS4me

At first they just did the sprocket and I drove off the lot no more than a 1/4 mile the light came back on. The ECU must store the code because Toyota told me that the ECU was bad as well (out of spec?) so it had to be replaced.

Did you visually inspect it, or was that just what the shop said?

I still find it hard to believe if these two issues are so tightly coupled that they wouldn't just replace the ECU and sprocket together every time. Why give the car back to the customer unfixed? That's horrible customer service.. From the sounds of it, Toyota does the same sort of troubleshooting steps that Subaru does.

I would really love to understand the true low-level details about why the ECU gets into this state. Now that warranty is up for the 2013s, a $1200 cam sprocket and a $1700 ECU replacement (what I was quoted) is absolutely absurd.