Crunching Noise When Decelerating In 2nd/3rd

[humfrz]

[quote=idkwhatimdoing;3025994]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Mine laughed all the way to the bank!


Woah! That’s one way to turn a bearing into a bushing...
I have never been so disappointed in a team of engineers
I’ll take it to Toyota this week and have them kindly check the bearing while I’m still under warranty.
Will update everyone on this issue, maybe I can maybe bring an end to this happening on our cars.
Thank you all for your help!! @Tcoat @humfrz especially


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Yep, making a bearing that spins all the time without failing ...... ain't rocket engineering.

OK, bring an end to this. I'll settle out of court, for a new TOB, whenever my car needs it and a Porsche for a loaner.

Let us know what the dealership has to say.


humfrz

[FirstWinter]

If it is the TOB try to get the 17+ replacement along with the grease. Now I'm paranoid as well since I have a 2015 and at ~41K miles just like you.

[Tcoat]

[quote=idkwhatimdoing;3025994]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Mine laughed all the way to the bank!


Woah! That’s one way to turn a bearing into a bushing...
I have never been so disappointed in a team of engineers
I’ll take it to Toyota this week and have them kindly check the bearing while I’m still under warranty.
Will update everyone on this issue, maybe I can maybe bring an end to this happening on our cars.
Thank you all for your help!! @Tcoat @humfrz especially


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can't find the whole TSB but you can show them the number on the attached.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117440

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by FirstWinter

If it is the TOB try to get the 17+ replacement along with the grease. Now I'm paranoid as well since I have a 2015 and at ~41K miles just like you.

Don't panic just yet. There are loads and loads of guys that have never had an issue. If it is going the tell tail sign is the squealing that you can change or stop by applying the clutch. Even though I knew what the issue was I waited too long after the squealing started and paid the price. It was the lack of the squeal (whine) in the first post here that originally had me thinking it wasn't the issue. Idk's follow up post however describes the final moments of mine almost word for word. The only thing he s missing is the burning smell and having to pull the pedal back up with his toes so maybe he hasn't totaled the clutch yet.

In hindsight I have little doubt that there are symptoms before the squeal starts but they are so gradual and unobtrusive that they are not noticed. They may not even be evident in an inspection but I am sure they are there. Ultramaroon has modified his clutch so it requires more pedal pressure. When I was driving his car he asked me what I thought and I said I liked it but really didn't feel a huge difference from my stock one. Once my car was fixed and I pushed the clutch for the first time it was a night and day difference from his. I think that the bearing had slowly been seizing up and although it was not creating noise yet it did take more pedal pressure to operate it. It had just happened so gradually that I never noticed the increase so the pressure felt "normal" to me. Now I am not happy with the stock pedal pressure so either need to do his cylinder mod or hope the bearing seizes up a bit again.

[Ultramaroon]

All that mechanical advantage of the stock setup not only makes for a vague clutch. It also makes it tougher to feel when the TOB starts binding on the quill.

[humfrz]

I have a question.

Is there any way to "see" the TOB without taking the bell housing off .. ?? Is there any inspection holes or any way to get a small flexible scope in there .. ??

Related question; would it be possible to "hear" a TOB going bad (like with a stethoscope) before it starts screaming...??


humfrz

[ermax]

I bet you could fit a scope in there. When you pull the dust cover back the opening is fairly big. Not sure you could spot a bad one with a scope though. When I replaced mine it didn’t visually look bad. It just didn’t spin freely anymore. If it looked like Tcoat’s, well that’s a different story. Hahaha.

[Ultramaroon]

There are a couple big openings on the bell housing. Can easily get a bore scope in there.

[humfrz]

OK, good, so, we can get a bore scope in there......

I wonder if a scope can be placed in there to see the TOB while the engine is running .. ??

If so, I wonder if a TOB bearing, that is going bad, would wobble or smoke or show any other signs of getting bad...??

Let's brainstorm this possible diagnostic method to sense a failing TOB ..


humfrz

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by humfrz

OK, good, so, we can get a bore scope in there......

I wonder if a scope can be placed in there to see the TOB while the engine is running .. ??

If so, I wonder if a TOB bearing, that is going bad, would wobble or smoke or show any other signs of getting bad...??

Let's brainstorm this possible diagnostic method to sense a failing TOB ..

No brainstorming necessary. It gets hot and melts the center bushing before it frags. The question is how long it lasts in that time between failure and catastrophic failure.

[idkwhatimdoing]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Don't panic just yet. There are loads and loads of guys that have never had an issue. If it is going the tell tail sign is the squealing that you can change or stop by applying the clutch. Even though I knew what the issue was I waited too long after the squealing started and paid the price. It was the lack of the squeal (whine) in the first post here that originally had me thinking it wasn't the issue. Idk's follow up post however describes the final moments of mine almost word for word. The only thing he s missing is the burning smell and having to pull the pedal back up with his toes so maybe he hasn't totaled the clutch yet.



In hindsight I have little doubt that there are symptoms before the squeal starts but they are so gradual and unobtrusive that they are not noticed. They may not even be evident in an inspection but I am sure they are there. Ultramaroon has modified his clutch so it requires more pedal pressure. When I was driving his car he asked me what I thought and I said I liked it but really didn't feel a huge difference from my stock one. Once my car was fixed and I pushed the clutch for the first time it was a night and day difference from his. I think that the bearing had slowly been seizing up and although it was not creating noise yet it did take more pedal pressure to operate it. It had just happened so gradually that I never noticed the increase so the pressure felt "normal" to me. Now I am not happy with the stock pedal pressure so either need to do his cylinder mod or hope the bearing seizes up a bit again.

Haven’t had to lift the pedal up with my toe just yet... I expect such an inconvenience to happen on my 50 year old Camaro...
As for the burning smell I did notice what smelled like clutch burning when I got home after riding the freeway in 5th gear for about 15 miles🙄I use my footrest like a good boy.


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[guybo]

Originally Posted by idkwhatimdoing

Damn rain makes this tin can sound like, well, a tin can.

You should hear the rain with a gutted rear seat and trunk.

Does anyone know if the TOB is covered by the full warranty or the powertrain warranty? Is that considered a powertrain part?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

All that mechanical advantage of the stock setup not only makes for a vague clutch. It also makes it tougher to feel when the TOB starts binding on the quill.

Yes. The vague feels is what I equated to "less pressure" as a more descriptive term. New I hardly had to touch the pedal.

Originally Posted by humfrz

I have a question.

Is there any way to "see" the TOB without taking the bell housing off .. ?? Is there any inspection holes or any way to get a small flexible scope in there .. ??

Related question; would it be possible to "hear" a TOB going bad (like with a stethoscope) before it starts screaming...??


humfrz

Don't know if there is much to see until it gets bad enough you will hear it anyway.

Originally Posted by ermax

I bet you could fit a scope in there. When you pull the dust cover back the opening is fairly big. Not sure you could spot a bad one with a scope though. When I replaced mine it didn’t visually look bad. It just didn’t spin freely anymore. If it looked like Tcoat’s, well that’s a different story. Hahaha.

That was probably how mine was for a while before it went totally bad. Did you notice any difference in pedal feel when you changed it?

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

No brainstorming necessary. It gets hot and melts the center bushing before it frags. The question is how long it lasts in that time between failure and catastrophic failure.

Originally Posted by idkwhatimdoing

Haven’t had to lift the pedal up with my toe just yet... I expect such an inconvenience to happen on my 50 year old Camaro...
As for the burning smell I did notice what smelled like clutch burning when I got home after riding the freeway in 5th gear for about 15 miles🙄I use my footrest like a good boy.


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The stuck pedal is a symptom of the catastrophic failure. If you have reached that point it is done.

Originally Posted by guybo

You should hear the rain with a gutted rear seat and trunk.

Does anyone know if the TOB is covered by the full warranty or the powertrain warranty? Is that considered a powertrain part?

Before the TSB came out many dealers would not do it under warranty at all since the called it a wear part (which it is). Since the TSB most seem to have no issue getting it done but don't say which level it was at. Remember that a TSB is not a recall or obligation to repair the issue it is simply a tech doc on how to fix it if it shows up. I was well out of warranty so didn't stand a chance.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by guybo

You should hear the rain with a gutted rear seat and trunk.



Does anyone know if the TOB is covered by the full warranty or the powertrain warranty? Is that considered a powertrain part?

There is a TSB for 2013-2016 now which says it’s covered.