Supercharge vs Turbo

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Grady

For me $500 on a $5k to $6k expense is negligible. Jackson racing kit $4k, I received a ok deal on an AVO kit $4.5K.

I think this is where our opinions diverge, because I can confidently say without looking at the parts list that I would not be getting everything that "I" would want in a turbo kit at $4.5k. When I priced the turbo option with all the accessories I'd need, it came out to ~$7500. I agree the cost difference isn't necessarily big enough to be a deal breaker, but it is more expensive.

Originally Posted by Grady

Anyway all of them would be fun they are forced induction! For me the turbo brings a more reliable platoform. To each his own this is why we have such great choices for this car. What other car do you have this many options for forced induction? It makes it hard to decide.

Agreed. It's great to have so many options. I prefer a lot of things about turbos, but the stock rod weakness, along with the Edelbrock and CS400 being able to get me near where I think the safe limit is, has me leaning away from turbos. It would be another story if I was looking forward to building the engine some day.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by gtengr

I think this is where our opinions diverge, because I can confidently say without looking at the parts list that I would not be getting everything that "I" would want in a turbo kit at $4.5k. When I priced the turbo option with all the accessories I'd need, it came out to ~$7500. I agree the cost difference isn't necessarily big enough to be a deal breaker, but it is more expensive.



Agreed. It's great to have so many options. I prefer a lot of things about turbos, but the stock rod weakness, along with the Edelbrock and CS400 being able to get me near where I think the safe limit is, has me leaning away from turbos. It would be another story if I was looking forward to building the engine some day.

As long as you keep the boost levels sane (i.e. 7-10 psi for a base kit), I would think a turbo would be more friendly to stock rods than a supercharger kit, unless you're absolutely lugging/loading up the turbo at low rpm in higher gears (which is just begging for problems). Consider flooring a car at 4000 rpm in 2nd gear (with sticky tires) - superchargers and their instant response could provide a much higher instant load on the stock rods than any turbo kit.

Also I'm somewhat wary of the Rotrex kits - the number of failures (regardless of kit manufacturer) of the Rotex units is not insignificant. May be due to incorrect priming or belt tension, not sure, but the failures are there. If you have warranty coverage, your car is out of commission for weeks. If you don't have warranty coverage, you're out $1500-$2000. On the other hand, take a basic SBD kit, they sell for <$3000, add $1000 in protective goodies, and if that turbo fails it's no where near as expensive to replace as a rotrex units. Maybe the Vortech units/Eaton/Sprintex units are more reliable, don't know much about their track records.

They both have their reliability issues, any FI is a risk. End of the day, I decided my car with tune & header is quick enough

[WORKS]

Turbo ... but we're biased

Has anyone logged their fuel consumption before and after their FI swap?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

As long as you keep the boost levels sane (i.e. 7-10 psi for a base kit), I would think a turbo would be more friendly to stock rods than a supercharger kit, unless you're absolutely lugging/loading up the turbo at low rpm in higher gears (which is just begging for problems). Consider flooring a car at 4000 rpm in 2nd gear (with sticky tires) - superchargers and their instant response could provide a much higher instant load on the stock rods than any turbo kit.

Also I'm somewhat wary of the Rotrex kits - the number of failures (regardless of kit manufacturer) of the Rotex units is not insignificant. May be due to incorrect priming or belt tension, not sure, but the failures are there. If you have warranty coverage, your car is out of commission for weeks. If you don't have warranty coverage, you're out $1500-$2000. On the other hand, take a basic SBD kit, they sell for <$3000, add $1000 in protective goodies, and if that turbo fails it's no where near as expensive to replace as a rotrex units. Maybe the Vortech units/Eaton/Sprintex units are more reliable, don't know much about their track records.

They both have their reliability issues, any FI is a risk. End of the day, I decided my car with tune & header is quick enough

SC's are friendlier to the rods; less torque at low rpm.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

As long as you keep the boost levels sane (i.e. 7-10 psi for a base kit), I would think a turbo would be more friendly to stock rods than a supercharger kit, unless you're absolutely lugging/loading up the turbo at low rpm in higher gears (which is just begging for problems). Consider flooring a car at 4000 rpm in 2nd gear (with sticky tires) - superchargers and their instant response could provide a much higher instant load on the stock rods than any turbo kit.

I don't think there's evidence to back that up as a concern, especially not with centri's that are only generating a few psi anyway at that rpm. Throttle tip in programming can control this if it's a problem.

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Also I'm somewhat wary of the Rotrex kits - the number of failures (regardless of kit manufacturer) of the Rotex units is not insignificant. May be due to incorrect priming or belt tension, not sure, but the failures are there. If you have warranty coverage, your car is out of commission for weeks. If you don't have warranty coverage, you're out $1500-$2000. On the other hand, take a basic SBD kit, they sell for <$3000, add $1000 in protective goodies, and if that turbo fails it's no where near as expensive to replace as a rotrex units. Maybe the Vortech units/Eaton/Sprintex units are more reliable, don't know much about their track records.

I agree on the Rotrex units. Turbos leak and fail too though. I would not expect the turbo in a $3k kit to outlast an Eaton TVS.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by gtengr

I don't think there's evidence to back that up as a concern, especially not with centri's that are only generating a few psi anyway at that rpm. Throttle tip in programming can control this if it's a problem.



I agree on the Rotrex units. Turbos leak and fail too though. I would not expect the turbo in a $3k kit to outlast an Eaton TVS.

At that point I'd consider the turbo (fairly easily replaced) as a maintenance item

[Grady]

I would say that at the same PSI/temp supercharger or turbo the stress is the same on the engine. You will see less torque at the wheels of a supercharged engine but that is because some of the torque is going out the front of the engine to run the supercharger. But the engine stress is the same.

[shr133]

I'm still going over this, but I think I'm going with an edelbrock supercharger because I want instant torque and low maintenance. This is my summer daily and a supercharger is easy to set up and very low maintenance for the HP I want. I want to make a max of 350-400 on E85. I think over 400HP you start to break a lot of parts. To get over 400HP a turbo may be a better choice. A supercharger offer an easy set amount of power. A turbo is way easier to add boost and power but over 400 HP will probably need a engine rebuild and you are dealing with a lot of heat with a turbo and becomes higher maintenance. With turbos you also have to find a kit that makes the power where you want it.. But a turbo is great if you like to tune, change from 5,10,15lbs of boost just by changing maps. A supercharger you have to change pulleys but is only effective to a point. I'm going with a supercharger if the stock engine and car could safely hold 500HP I would get a turbo but it's personal choice you can get a turbo to almost replicate a supercharger with more available top end....

[mjanmohammad]

Originally Posted by WORKS

Turbo ... but we're biased

Has anyone logged their fuel consumption before and after their FI swap?

I'll be doing this! I've been using the Fuelly app since I bought my car last year, and ordered a JDL kit recently.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Grady

I would say that at the same PSI/temp supercharger or turbo the stress is the same on the engine. You will see less torque at the wheels of a supercharged engine but that is because some of the torque is going out the front of the engine to run the supercharger. But the engine stress is the same.

Since the turbo is an exhaust restriction, I think the supercharger makes slightly more power in the cylinder (at same efficiency, psi, etc). Agree the turbo should put more to the wheels.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by gtengr

I don't think there's evidence to back that up as a concern, especially not with centri's that are only generating a few psi anyway at that rpm. Throttle tip in programming can control this if it's a problem.



I agree on the Rotrex units. Turbos leak and fail too though. I would not expect the turbo in a $3k kit to outlast an Eaton TVS.

I have the SBD and so do a few guys here in Atlanta and I know some guys personally who have driven 55-60k miles without turbo or engine failure on a "supposedly" cheap turbo.

[86Tony]

Turbo all the way, i started off with a c38 rotrex it was nice but it wasnt all that, tbh i never felt like the car was boosted it just feels na and you have to rip it to feel the power. I then switch to Ptuning with gen 2 gtx2867r i dont think i can recommend superchargers anymore with the turbo power is still linear and still pulls all the way up to redline. All that turbo noises that low end and mid range tq is fuckin awsome. Rotrex setup i made 277whp 200wtq at 8 psi with my gtx2867r i made 323whp 271wtq at 9 psi

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by 86Tony

Turbo all the way, i started off with a c38 rotrex it was nice but it wasnt all that, tbh i never felt like the car was boosted it just feels na and you have to rip it to feel the power. I then switch to Ptuning with gen 2 gtx2867r i dont think i can recommend superchargers anymore with the turbo power is still linear and still pulls all the way up to redline. All that turbo noises that low end and mid range tq is fuckin awsome. Rotrex setup i made 277whp 200wtq at 8 psi with my gtx2867r i made 323whp 271wtq at 9 psi

How long have you been turboed for?

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by 86Tony

Turbo all the way, i started off with a c38 rotrex it was nice but it wasnt all that, tbh i never felt like the car was boosted it just feels na and you have to rip it to feel the power. I then switch to Ptuning with gen 2 gtx2867r i dont think i can recommend superchargers anymore with the turbo power is still linear and still pulls all the way up to redline. All that turbo noises that low end and mid range tq is fuckin awsome. Rotrex setup i made 277whp 200wtq at 8 psi with my gtx2867r i made 323whp 271wtq at 9 psi

That's a pretty big bump in power, and nicely sized on the GTX28. Good choice and numbers.

I think a well-tuned and sized turbo setup can be VERY linear and nice. I think the supercharger was doing it's job for someone who wanted linear power with those power goals, but for someone who wanted more power, the Ptuning kit is wicked.

Edit: What header are you running? I'm curious because it makes zero sense to use the stock header to me, being that there's a pre-turbo cat.