No Stupid Questions Thread

[krayzie]

Why is Scion dead?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Why is Scion dead?

Because they didn't sell enough cars to justify their existence. If they sold a shitton they'd still be around.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/10...es-usa-canada/

There were fewer Scions sold in 2016 than Dodge Challengers (54k v 64k). The brand was a marketing team trying to improve sales on certain Toyota cars, if they can't sell the cars better with Scion badges than Toyota badges then it's a losing business.

Why they didn't sell enough cars is a large enough topic to write a Masters thesis on, and if there was an answer and solution you can bet Toyota would have done it.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

what's a short block and what's a long block?

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

what's a short block and what's a long block?

Have you heard of Google?
Here, let me help.
https://www.carsdirect.com/car-maint...ne-performance
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-di...t-block-engine
https://itstillruns.com/difference-v...s-6383527.html

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Have you heard of Google?
Here, let me help.
https://www.carsdirect.com/car-maint...ne-performance
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-di...t-block-engine
https://itstillruns.com/difference-v...s-6383527.html

Okay still not really 100%. So if I install FI and blow the engine, do I need a short block or a long block. Or does that depend on which part of the engine blew up?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Because they didn't sell enough cars to justify their existence. If they sold a shitton they'd still be around.

Not saying you are wrong but some of your answer assumes you knew how many cars they "intended" to sell vs how many they did. They could have been exactly on track, but decided the juice wasn't worth the squeeze, or that the marketing had played out, or maybe they just wanted to improve the Toyota model lineup by branding the Scion cars Toyota.

Over the period of time shown in the charts in the article you reference (2010 to 2016) Scion sales increased. Their best year was 2012 with a 57% increase of 2010 and 49% over 2011 (primarily because of the sales of the FRS, since this is calendar year and not model year). Even though sales decreased each year after 2012, 2015 had sales 18% higher than 2010, and even 2016,when they shut down, had sales 7% higher than 2010, no doubt helped by the fire sale once the brand was shuttered.

I would hazard to guess that the unit decrease YOY from 2013 forward was primarily due to saturation of FR-S sales and the lack of new models. Most manufacturers go through that type of ebb and flow.

[Darth Khan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

True, but you can make an educated guess. Here is my 3/2 cents worth:

1. As the 86 is the direct descendant of the FRS there is a certain logic to 'Upgrading' to a Toyota badge.
2. The fact that you purchased a Scion in the first place means that you preferred it over the Subaru so why would to try make make it look like a Subaru.
3. Last but not least. Twin owners are just weird, if your going to re-badge your car why the FRACK did you buy it in the first place?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Darth Khan

True, but you can make an educated guess. Here is my 3/2 cents worth:

1. As the 86 is the direct descendant of the FRS there is a certain logic to 'Upgrading' to a Toyota badge.
2. The fact that you purchased a Scion in the first place means that you preferred it over the Subaru so why would to try make make it look like a Subaru.
3. Last but not least. Twin owners are just weird, if your going to re-badge your car why the FRACK did you buy it in the first place?

But the 86 isn't a descendent of the FRS. They were contemporaries based upon locations. All people were doing was badging the car the same as the rest of the world.

[ScoobsMcGee]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Not saying you are wrong but some of your answer assumes you knew how many cars they "intended" to sell vs how many they did. They could have been exactly on track, but decided the juice wasn't worth the squeeze, or that the marketing had played out, or maybe they just wanted to improve the Toyota model lineup by branding the Scion cars Toyota.

Over the period of time shown in the charts in the article you reference (2010 to 2016) Scion sales increased. Their best year was 2012 with a 57% increase of 2010 and 49% over 2011 (primarily because of the sales of the FRS, since this is calendar year and not model year). Even though sales decreased each year after 2012, 2015 had sales 18% higher than 2010, and even 2016,when they shut down, had sales 7% higher than 2010, no doubt helped by the fire sale once the brand was shuttered.

I would hazard to guess that the unit decrease YOY from 2013 forward was primarily due to saturation of FR-S sales and the lack of new models. Most manufacturers go through that type of ebb and flow.

If you expand this to before the US recession, the reasons become a bit more apparent:



While US total sales were affected, the industry as a whole didn't take nearly the hit that Scion did. Despite the iQ and FRS boosting 2012 numbers, the brand's recovery faltered while the rest of the market continued to pick up. There are many possible reasons for this. If I were to research it further, I'd look at the age range of buyers between the years and then compare that to those who were most impacted in 2007. I'd also consider the cost of gas and then compare the target market for cars like the xB and xD against people buying crossovers and SUVs. But I'm lazy.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ScoobsMcGee

If you expand this to before the US recession, the reasons become a bit more apparent:



While US total sales were affected, the industry as a whole didn't take nearly the hit that Scion did. Despite the iQ and FRS boosting 2012 numbers, the brand's recovery faltered while the rest of the market continued to pick up. There are many possible reasons for this. If I were to research it further, I'd look at the age range of buyers between the years and then compare that to those who were most impacted in 2007. I'd also consider the cost of gas and then compare the target market for cars like the xB and xD against people buying crossovers and SUVs. But I'm lazy.

There is no mystery here. Toyota was very clear in why they ended Scion. Sales had little to do with it as it was never intended as a permanent mark to begin with. It was an inexpensive testing ground for new sales and marketing methods and they gained the info they were looking for so wrapped it up.


http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...ion+toyota.htm

[ScoobsMcGee]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is no mystery here. Toyota was very clear in why they ended Scion. Sales had little to do with it as it was never intended as a permanent mark to begin with. It was an inexpensive testing ground for new sales and marketing methods and they gained the info they were looking for so wrapped it up.


http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...ion+toyota.htm

That, to me, reads like putting a positive spin on why the brand was shuttered. Sort of like how Subaru admitted that the cost was a factor, but claimed that they left WRC because the project had "achieved its original goals."

[nextcar]

No stupid questions? I'll take that as a challenge!

Why does the FRS/86/BRZ absolutely need 50 HP more to make it a fun car?

Do I win???

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ScoobsMcGee

That, to me, reads like putting a positive spin on why the brand was shuttered. Sort of like how Subaru admitted that the cost was a factor, but claimed that they left WRC because the project had "achieved its original goals."

Oh no doubt there is spin there but I think the base statements remain accurate.
They could have simply said "We tried it. It worked for a bit. It stopped working. We are done trying and won't try it with our other marks."

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Why is Scion dead?

SCION was the result of the Toyota Genesis Project which produced the Echo, Celica and MR2 Spyder (MR-S). The idea was to introduce young drivers to exciting Toyota models and then as they grew older they would stay Toyota buyers as they transitioned into family cars, vans, trucks and SUVs. Creating Scion as its own brand was the next step with the same end goal.

The problem was, the brand never drew the younger generation in the numbers that were envisioned. In fact, some marketing studies showed that the Scion brand attracted a much older demographic than was expected, especially in sales of models like the B Box.

As evidenced by the changing of the badges that is so common on this forum, when people buy a Toyota they would just rather it say "Toyota". That is unless they can afford a Lexus. Then they want their Toyota to say "Lexus".